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The Fall of England: Canada's more serious place in the war.

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by Totenkopf, Apr 7, 2008.

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  1. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

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    What if Sealion had happened and the Bombing raids on Britain's citys continued until they were burnt into submitting. Elements of the Royal navy, army, many civlians and RAF are evacuated to Canada as well as the entire royal family. Those ships that could not make it to Canada went to Iceland and scuttled themselves there.

    Germany's Piss-off next door is gone, she sees a whole new road of opportunities. If the Russian threat was gone (Peace treaty? Ally togeather?)
    what would the free German, Italian and various other Axis beligrents do?


    Canada: People, weapons, ships and planes are making a desperate effort in Canada to fight on, The Joint Anglo-Canadian navy has a whole new set of worries to look upon. Much larger territory to patrol and guard. The U.S. is still neutral and the threat of a possible Axis invaison of North America looms over their heads. What would happen then?
     
  2. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    If the US still enters the war against Germany the Germans lose.

    There is no chance; none, zero, zip, nada, that Germany could successfully invade the Americas.

    Actually, the Commonwealth would have an easier time of things navally. For example, this renders about two thirds of the German U-boat fleet irrelevant. The Type VII doesn't have the range to operate in the mid-Atlantic or off the Americas. This leaves the handful of Type IXs available as the only resource.
     
  3. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Totenkopf,

    I hate to tell you, but this topic has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum.
     
  4. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    Hey totenkopf there are a lot of what if, many which were not possible, such the "Russian threat gone" why is it gone?, The American invasion? the Germans were in no way fit enough for the invasion of Britain let alone a transatlantic crossing. where would they stage there invasion from?

    Since we have discussed most of the what ifs you have posted before, I will leave them, however I will answer the BRitish evacuation one.

    The British would not have been in any shape to evacuate their airforce or there army, just look at the British evacuation of France, they had to enlist the help of the merchant navy, small tugs and every vessel that was capable of crossing the channel. How would they get the planes and men onto enough ships capable of transporting enough of these to canada, with enough escorts to hold back the probable german intervention of this evacuation? I would say the majority of the RN would be evacuated to somewhere like either, Canada or into the meditarrein. Althouhg with the the lost of the British Isle's the evacuation of North Africa would probably follow.
     
  5. Joe

    Joe Ace

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    I'm not going to comment, this what if is pointless. I hate any what ifs concerning Sealion, there was no way it could have succeeded.
     
  6. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    That is why I completely left that the invasion part:)
     
  7. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Then I suppose you haven't seen this particular post:
    http://www.ww2f.com/280497-post9.html

    :_arg: :rofl: :_lol: :lol: :_eek: :D :_doh:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. KaiserWilhelm

    KaiserWilhelm Member

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    Yes, Sealion could have succeeded, albeit if the Luftwaffe wins the air war (which, I would argue, would require some other figure than Goering in command). The landings would have been disasterously bloody, but if you defeat the RAF, you also destroy the RN, or at least its ability to protect the Channel or project power from anywhere closer than, say, Scapa Flow.

    With the RN out of the picture, then Germany can land troops. If Germany does land troops, and is able to maintain its beach head, then siezures of airfields cannots be far off. Once that happens, the U.K. is doomed.

    Obviously, an invasion of the U.S. isn't going to be an immediate adventure. However, a question like 'could the Nazis have conquered the U.S.?' isn't as far-fetched as people are making it out to be. If Germany defeats England, then the logistics of a continental invasion become an unimaginable nightmare for U.S. strategic planners. An invasion of that scale that had to cross the Atlantic before being unleashed would be ridiculously difficult, and would take years of planning to develop. At that point, what is the overall situation? Has Russia fallen? Has Hitler developed an Atomic Bomb? Does Hitler now control the Royal Navy in addition to the Kriegsmarine?

    The realistic scenario for an invasion of the U.S. comes 10-15 years after Germany defeats the U.K. in World War II - when a 'cold war-like' relationship exists between a superpower United States and a superpower Third Reich. Could an invasion succeed then? Absolutely.
     
  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Before we go any further with yet another line of discussion on Sealion, read these threads, if you have not already. Have your posts concerning Sealion reference statements in these posts. Let's not reinvent the wheel.

    http://www.ww2f.com/what-if/12050-yet-another-operation-sealion-what-if.html

    http://www.ww2f.com/what-if/21516-operation-sealion-should-have-happened.html

    http://www.ww2f.com/what-if/12073-fully-intact-french-navy-germans.html

    http://www.ww2f.com/what-if/20452-how-could-germany-have-won-war.html
     
  10. Joe

    Joe Ace

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    Za, thankfully I havent.

    KaiserWilhelm, no it couldn't. Though I don't want an argument so I'm not visiting this thread anymore.
     
  11. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    Oh my goodness. basically im with Joe so NO, however if you want to continue this line of topic, I am happy for you to post in the already started thread, I always love a good discussion, are you game kaiser;)
     
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