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The Naval War

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by corpcasselbury, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Here we can discuss the naval battles of World War 2, without clogging up the other topic concerning the navies of both sides.
     
  2. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Nominations

    Since this topic is going nowhere fast lets start with something that can get a debate going.

    Please nominate you preference for best single ship performance. My vote is for HMS I-might-be-outgunned-on-fire-and-sinking-but-I'm-still-going-to-have-a-piece-of-you Gloworm
     
  3. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Re: Nominations

    My vote is going to USS Edsall.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Pardon my ignorance...

    Why?

    :oops:
     
  5. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Why not?
     
  6. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Poor little Edsall! Scooting as fast as she could, an entire battleship task force bearing down at her.... The Japanese fired more than 1300 shells at her for a total of 2-3 hits before someone called in an air strike that reduced her to a smudge.
    If you want accurate gunfire, USS San Francisco once achieved seven hits in one salvo, which is the most I've ever heard of. In total, she scored nineteen hits in four salvoes at one target...which unfortunately turned out to be USS Atlanta.
     
  7. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Re: Nominations

    I'm a little jaded on Glowworm as the damage she caused was far less than usually described and her valiant ramming attack was actually the random act of a ship without steering control. I'm more impressed with Ardent and Acasta, going up against two battleships and actually putting a fish in one of them.
     
  8. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Ohio

    I think another great ship performance was the American tanker Ohio on grounds of her sheer refusal to sink despite being hit by bombs at least twice, topedoed once, had two bombers crash into her (!) and the bottom blasted out of her engine room. She only finally broke in two after reaching Malta and having the oil pumped out.

    The convoy escorted by the AMC HMS Jervis Bay contain several example of great bravery from ship crews.
     
  9. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Re: Ohio

    Stephen Hopkins!
     
  10. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Re: Nominations

    In my not very educated opinion, that whole Glorious fiasco was one of the most worst screw-ups RN ever made.
     
  11. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Glorious

    The fact that the two Scharhorst class managed to ambush a carrier was a major screw up that started when the Admiralty appointed a man who didn't believe airpower was important as Captain of the Glorious (which flaming idiot managed that). The two destroyers tried to savage the situation but were way waaaaaay out of their weight class. However the torpedo that they did mage to put into Scharhorst did prevent the Germans from hunting down and taking out a near by troop transport convoy.

    I remember seeing on TV a collection of Scharhorst vets meeting up to toast the memory of Ardent and Acasta.
     
  12. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    RN destroyers were marvellous at the gallant & dashing attaccks - it was what they trained for.

    Whether or not they were a good idea, is another matter...
     
  13. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    RN Destroyers

    The German Heavy Cruiser Admiral Hipper seemed to have persistant bad experiences of RN destroyer. Rammed by Gloworm and driven off by a particularly agressive convoy escort.
     
  14. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams Member

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    For raw courage you can't beat the Jervis Bay. She was an armed merchant ship escorting a convoy, when it was attacked by one of the pocket battleships (IIRC).

    She sailed straight at the PB, firing her little 4 inch popguns, to give the convoy a chance to scatter and escape - and it worked, most of them got away. Jervis Bay was sunk, of course. Her Captain won one of the best-deserved VCs of the war, IMO - posthumously.

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
    forum
     
  15. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Battle of River Plate?

    It only took 1 Heavy cruiser & 2 Light cruisers to sink the Graf Spee - her sister ships required the attention of most of the Home Fleet!

    Also notable as one of the very very few purely ship vs. ship engagements of WW2 to happen in the Atlantic (none of these nasty modern fripperies like aircraft or submarines!).
     
  16. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    River Plate did involve aircraft, British aircraft, and they managed to tip the scales slightly to Spee's advantage. An aerial spotter sent gunnery corrections to one light cruiser while he was actually viewing the splashes of the other light cruiser. Oops.
     
  17. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Battle of the River Plate

    I think the Germans fail to learn a very important lesson from the Plate. Although HMS Exeter got badly chewed up it showed that big surface raiders could not afford to get damaged at any price so effectively they could avoid to take on anything that would shoot back.

    On a seperate note I think Jervis Bay had 6" guns but they were WW1 vitage so still pop guns. The little Flower Class corvets that were the workhorse of the North Atlantic were armed with guns from the 1890's that had originally been for signalling!
     
  18. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Re: Battle of the River Plate

    The Germans generated very strict orders against engaging enemy warships. Commanders who neglected these orders did not keep their commands very long.
    Yes, British AMCs carried surplus 6in guns of various elderly marks. It was possible for them to be sunk before ever getting close enough to hit the enemy.
    The Flowers carried whatever weapon was handy that day at the boatyard....
     
  19. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    When you mention JERVIS BAY, don't forget RAWALPINDI. Just as much courage shown, with the same result. What sadist came up with the armed merchant cruiser concept, anyway?
     
  20. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Except that Rawalpindi was not escorting a convoy--isn't that right? I've heard some speculation that her CO would have suffered some censure, had he survived.
     

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