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The New "Inland" M1 Carbine

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by KodiakBeer, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Well, thanks, guys. I was merely following Kieth's scientific example by scrutinizing post to find reasons to explore research and it paid off.....3 likes !! Much appreciation to KB, Otto, and USNCPrice.

    On a more serious note. A cousin of ours returned from the ETO after the war. Somehow he brought back an arsenal and gave us a carbine he carried in the war, An early, I believe Remington Rand, It has a stamped trigger guard and showed a fair amount of machine marks. He gave us lots of bandoliers of ammunition and 15 round magazines which we supplemented with 30 round mags. My dad and brother and I loved to shoot it for fun. It was a constant companion in our beat up Willy's jeep. In inherited it and over 30 years it never once failed to fire. I would say it enjoyed moderate car and cleaning. What a military weapon should do. It was easily accurate for it's intended purpose. I thought it a fine piece for it's intended purpose as did my cousin. He even brought back an M2 version but kept for himself. During the Civil Rights struggle, we lived near Selma, the Sheriff "armed" what he considered men of "prominence" with new M1 carbines, 50 of them, from US Army surplus They formed a sort of modern posse called "The Citizen's Council", carefully leaving out the word "White" . It joined our older gun and though not shot neatly as often also never had a misfire. In ended up on my brother's side of the family. It is notable that the sheriff of that time, Jim Clark, later was convicted of drug smuggling!

    I am slight of build, down to 5-5 and 136 pounds at 79 but thought the M1 Carbine was made for me. As a handy, light, easy to get into action short carbine it really has a good solid design. I have shot countless rounds through one. I think many people think of it as a weak assault rifle, not it's intended use to me.

    Gaines
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  2. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    Slim, Rangoon.
    His Carbine a gift from Stillwell.

    IMG_20190507_105838.jpg
     
  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I like it, but Slim needs to rumple up his hat a bit, and perhaps grow a big brushy mustache, to reach the high SE Asian fashion bar set by Major Lumley on page one of this train wreck.

    .
     
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  4. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    Agree on general principle, the Lumley shot being rather special, but he is still a General out in public with a Carbine; so quite racy.

    Anyone might think he found it an appropriate weapon for his particular circumstances... :cutie:
     
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  5. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Appropriate? Like potting a few pheasants?

    .
     
  6. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I thought I might revisit this after carrying it around on my desert excursions for the last five months. I have a hound that must go for long walks into the desert every single day, lest she make my life miserable. She chases jackrabbits and I try to keep up with her, carrying the carbine. She never catches a rabbit, but that doesn't discourage her at all. The M1 replaces a 9mm 'Linda' carbine that weighs almost two pounds more, and it gives me far more range than the 9mm (should I need it). I live 30 or 40 miles above the border with wild mountainous country in between, and groups of people known locally as the "Sonoran Hiking Club" are regular visitors transiting the area. My contacts with these people have been friendly (pull up the thread 'Island of Unloved Battle Rifles'), but among them are people carrying valuable loads of nonprescription medications like Meth and Fentanyl. These people will kill you, hence the need for a firearm, and one with enough range to outdistance the handguns they may carry. I spell this out to illustrate that wanting a light arm is more than just an affectation on my part.

    So, what have I learned?

    The M1 Carbine absolutely must run wet, meaning it must be oiled regularly or it stops being reliable. I rack a cartridge into the chamber every time I leave the house and every couple of weeks I notice a hesitancy in feeding that initial round into the chamber. A few drops of oil and it runs slick again. The designers cleverly included a little oil bottle to hold the sling into the buttstock. They knew what they were doing.

    The magazines. Or should I say "the effing magazines?" The magazine that came with the gun is crap. I replaced that with some original GI mags which ran just fine until they turned into crap. The problem here is that the original concept was that the magazines were to be disposable and thus were made out of the flimsiest of sheet steel. Of course the army, in practice, tossed that idea out the window on cost grounds. At that point they should have gone back to the manufacturers and demanded the mags be made out of heavier steel. Of course they didn't do that and hence if you use that mag frequently the feed lips get bent, or the tabs that hold it into the receiver wear down causing the mag to fall out of the gun. It's amusing that when the mags fall out of the gun the floor plate general gets shaken loose and along with the spring get launched into the desert, never to be found again. I'm sure GIs in combat found this disappointing. I found some mags made of heavier steel from a Korean outfit called RWB. These don't work 100% either, at first. You have to tweak the feed lips with a pair of needle nose plyers until they feed reliably, but once tweaked they stay tweaked. Problem solved.

    Anyway, the mags are the only real issue and I found a solution. The "keep it oiled" thing wasn't really a problem, just something I had to learn, and likely something every soldier issued one knew from the beginning. With the gun well oiled and using reliable mags it just runs and runs and runs. Accuracy is "good enough," to use the industry term. Power? Foot pounds of energy are a real thing, and this dwarfs any of the pistol caliber carbines. I'm using soft points which should ruin the day of any unlicensed Mexican pharmacist who dares point a handgun at me.

    I've only used it once "in anger" and that was to kill a rattlesnake right near the house as the dog and I began our hike. I noticed her (the dog) hop nimbly off the trail a few paces ahead of me, and thinking little of it I damned near stepped on a snake. A better dog would have done a "Timmy fell in the well" dance and made a big deal of saving me from a lost limb, but she's only a hound and has no Lassie tendencies at all. Still, she is the only dog I have and I must make do despite her many deficiencies. The carbine killed the snake just fine though to be fair, it wasn't wearing a Chinese quilted jacket.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    I see a belt in the making. Or at the least a hatband.

    I can't remember, actually wouldn't have given it a thought at the age of 12 or 13, but I'm not sure what type/brand of magazine we had for the M1 carbine I grew up with. Don't recall every having an issue like you've explained above. Being 50 plus years ago I do seem to recall they weren't 'tinny'. They actually had some 'heft' to them. We'd load up a few 'mags' (12?) shoot and reload another set, repeat.

    Anything made after the 50's just doesn't have that quality aspect.
     
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  8. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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  9. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Your comment about the need for frequent oiling is right in line with Korean War experience. Most oil froze in the Korean winter, but troops found that most firearms could, if necessary, be run 'dry' and still shoot. The carbine couldn't, which is most likely why it got such a bad reputation in that war. Apparently it's something to do with the design peculiarities of the Williams gas system.
     
  10. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    What I'm seeing is a failure to return to battery which, I think, is inherent in the design of the recoil spring for such a light round. Similar rifles like the Garand/M14 have a much heavier spring to return the rifle to battery, locking the lugs in place via that rotating bolt. That Garand spring, because of the full power round, is hefty enough to work when dry, or dirty, or whatever the issue. With that lighter spring in the Carbine, it needs all the help it can get and better be well oiled and clean.
    I don't see that as a problem under normal conditions, though I can see where in extreme cold it might well become an issue.

    .
     
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  11. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Agreed.
     
  12. harolds

    harolds Member

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    If it had problems in Korea, then I assume that the carbine also had problems in places like the mountains of Italy and Belgium during the winter. Yes?
     
  13. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I suppose it would depend on the temperature at which gun oil congeals. I've hunted (not with a carbine) in some pretty extreme conditions in Alaska and never noticed any issue with my bolt action rifles being sticky after being left outside the shelter all night. I don't think Belgium with its borderline maritime climate would be an issue either, but northern Italy...? Maybe. Korea, certainly, it's pretty well documented.

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  14. harolds

    harolds Member

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    It pretty cold during the Ardennes battle. It was one of the coldest winters in memory.
     
  15. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    If I recall correctly, during the Bulge the temperatures were as low as 0F (about -20C for us in the civilized world :D). At Chosin, which I believe had the coldest weather of the Korean War, the temperatures were as low as -40C.

    I'm not factoring wind chill into either figure, as that should have no impact to a firearm. I haven't given it much thought but I believe humidity would have an impact on firearms.
     
  16. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I read one account on an American website that said after the weather cleared it got down to -6 F. However, I haven't been able to confirm that. All the sites that I found that had weather data, mostly were concerned with precip and visibility-not temps.
     
  17. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I can imagine any rifle freezing up in that kind of weather, not just because of oil, but because of moisture freezing in the action. A guy goes into a house or tent where there's heat and cooking where it picks up moisture, then back out into the cold... Who is going to pause ten minutes after going back outside, clear his rifle and rack the action a few times to make sure it isn't frozen up?

    .
     
  18. harolds

    harolds Member

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    As you probably know, where you are has a lot to do with what the temperature is, especially in a temperature inversion which usually happen right after a storm when it clears up. Whatever solar warmth there is, is radiated out into space and the coldest air travels downhill to the valleys where it is trapped. So if a soldier is down in a valley, the temp might be a -10F. His buddy in the next company could be on a hill 500ft. above the valley and "only" experiencing a balmy +15 degrees.
     

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