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The Red Baron

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Mehar, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    RedBaron

    Has anyone seen the movie? I don't remember seeing any trailers for it here.

    At the beginning of the film, any idea why the yellow planes have a Star of David on them? This is the first time I'm seeing that on German WWI planes.

    For those who've seen it, is it any good? How is it on an historical level? I doubt the love sub plot is very historical since they usually never are in war movies.
     
  2. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    I Enjoyed watching it Mehar , it was certainly not a bad movie ..go for it .
     
  3. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    Ugh,

    ‘The Red Baron killed a lot of people. Does that make him a hero?’ - The Globe and Mail

    First Germany's World War 2 veterans and now it's going back to World War 1.

    Some people seem to have the wrong idea of war, the premise of war is two nations going at it with everything they have. Do they think the Canadians, Americans, British, etc were simply standing still for the entire war while the Germans mowed them down yet lost since they didn't do a good enough job?

    Heinrich: Thanks Heinrich! I do applaud that such a topic is being discussed in Germany after so long especially all at once so I don't mind giving my $10 to at least explore future films on the subject matter, hopefully good truthful ones.
     
  4. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Mehar,

    I saw the movie and found it quite well done - exept for the actor taking the part of von Richthofen.
    IMO he was far to "boyish" as to portrait an aristocratic German officer - no matter at how old Richthofen or others were in those days.

    I do not recall that the entire squadron had the Star of David, but one of the Pilots was a German-Jew. (IIRC it was only his plane that had that marking)

    It was not uncommen at all before the Nazis, that German-Jew's were just as nationalistic about Germany as other Germans - Hitlers commanding officer who decorated Hitler with the Iron Cross was also a German-Jew.

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  5. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    It looked like a few of them had it but on closer inspections you're right, only one of them had it with the other planes having their own custom markings on them where the star was on the first plane.

    Did von Richthofen have the "don't kill people, only disable their planes" type policy like stated in the trailer? Previously I didn't hear anything for or against the argument.
     
  6. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Mehar,

    Many of the pilots had an aristocratic background and therefore a sense of "Fair play" which according to books deterioated as the war went on.

    I never have - and never will fly and dogfight in a double or tripple decker:D, but I can't imagine that upon hammering away on that Spandau - that it would be "controllable" as to were those bullets all went flying to.

    There was an "unofficial - codex" of not to shot on aircraft that were disabled or might have run out of ammo - as stated above I could well imagine that maybe till 1916 this was done - but after that it was a cruel war with everyone fighting for his and his countries survival.

    My father was a pilot in WWII and he told me that before the BoB until the US boys started to come - he and many other pilots did not engage into air combat.
    From 1943 onward it had become a war of not being able to avoid combat - as such he and others did start to shoot. He hates until today to talk about individual cases of dogfights.

    He simply wanted to fly such as many others of many nations during WWI and II - the war changed their "wantings".

    Regards
    Kruska
     
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  7. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    If that's the claim its a falsehood.
    You have to remember that at this time Allied aircrew didn't have parachutes, so if the plane went out of control they would spend the next few minutes plunging to their deaths, or even worse, if they plane caught fire they would face burning to death before it hit the ground, so aiming at the pilot in order to give him a quick death was actually considered an humane and honourable act
     
  8. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    All of that is debatable, after all the object of the air war is to shot down the other aircraft.

    I have read an account of a British commanding officer from the Goshawk Squadron who drilled into his men that they were there to kill Germans. He demanded they fly down from the sun and shot them in the back before they could get a chance to get away, and if they were damaged shot them down still, "That is one less German Aircraft to worry about Tomorrow"

    I have also read accounts of the Red Baron, and how the only reason his tally was so high was because he tried to avoid dogfights with the enemy planes and only went for the stranded and struggling planes.
     
  9. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    I have not seen the movie itself, so I won't comment on it. But I did notice the reference to the "Star of David" on the German plane, did you know that Eddie Rickenbacker had swastikas on his squadron's planes? They were rather small, and in the "Indian Headdress" painted on the fuselage, but they were there.

    The swastika hadn't taken on it's sinister reputation yet, and still was recognized as both the "Sun/Moon sign" in Amerindian lore, and a "good luck" sign outside of that group.
     
  10. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    I heard of this movie sometime ago but have yet to see it and would like to.

    Also, I have two very minor connections with the Baron himself. One in the name of a very valuable Bier Stein I bought in Heidelberg Germany-which features various images of he and his first aircraft-not the tri-wing Fokker. The other is that I met some family member of his on the train coming to Heidelberg ;-))

    Anyway, more details later. See Ange ;-)) I don't just "live" in the """Lesser Period.""" :lol: :lol:
     
  11. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Carl,

    I know, I know - everybody once in a while want's to get out of the cellar and breath some good and fresh air. :D

    Hello Tomcat,

    In regards to the Baron hunting down stranded and struggling planes - I wouldn't exclude this as I mentioned already above in regards to 1916 and onward.
    However his score wasn't that out of excell as the Luftwaffe aces in WWII in regards to the allies.
    IIRC the Baron had "only" 2-5 more kills then the leading British and French aces.
    The top ranking pilot list shows that the British and French were actually better scores then the Germans in WWI.

    Regards
    Kruska
     
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  12. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Godspeed the Warrior, Then and Now
     
  13. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    Thanks for the responses everyone!

    Have they said anything about the movie? I know Rommel's estate wasn't too enthusiastic about Valkyrie since they figured it would be "Hollywoodized".
     
  14. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Heh heh, it smelled of Cognac, Cheese and Sausage-and Iron Crosses :lol: :lol:
     
  15. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Mehar, I don't know if any descendants have mentioned anything about the movie or not? I was in Germany almost 10 years ago. All I remember from my encounter with one of the Barons descendants was that I was sitting in a 1st class area on the train and this young person walks in and asked if he could take a seat-to which I said absolutely. I was reading a book about the Barons 80 victories and without letting the guy know-I knew he was watching me and I saw him grinning because of the title of the book I was reading.

    He got my attention and asked my why I was so interested in a WWII German War Hero? He also said that he wasn't aware that this war hero was so widly known outside Germany and Europe.

    I told him that the Red Baron was my absolute most favorite WWII German Ace to read about. I also told him I got my interest in learning more about the Baron thanks to watching Snoopy (see Snoopy in my posts) always at war, and getting shot down by-the Red Baron ;-))

    The guy knew what I was referring to and laughed. He asked my more about my interests of WKI and I told him my favorite PlM guy in WWI-was Uboat Ace: Lothar von Arnauld de la Perrier. I also said I had a huge uinterest in many things WKI ;-))

    Our conversation ended with his inviting me to look up he and his family next time I was in German, gave me a calling card (which I have since lost) that had his name, addy and tele nr on it. I am invited to be a guest of his family next time I am in Deutschland and in the area. ;-))
     
  16. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Mehar, hello Carl,

    well Carl - I sure envy you for that train meeting - I do hope that you will get a chance to travel to Germany and meet this Richthofen gent.

    Mehar, the Richthofen's Familiy comment to this movie was: He (the red Baron) certainly was not a romantic person as portrait in this movie, nor did he have scruples or did he have any problems upon his conviction towards the war - He was an extremly cold blooded person, and like a pop star signing autographs.

    I would agree to this, otherwise no person or pilot could have achieved the victories as he or other aces did. Being a cold blooded person IMO does not necessarily include a murderers mentality - unless one would want to term a soldier as in general being a murderer.

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  17. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Shure would like finding a signed popstar foto of him Krusk,
    pity those go for an awfull lot of money today ...
     
  18. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    Thanks again for the responses!

    Great story Carl, was he a bit hostile at first or more curious? I think most people know of the Red Baron thanks to Snoopy! It seems like a really cool meeting, I think the Deutschland is calling for ya again. ;)

    Kruska: By cold blooded perhaps you are referring to war hardened or something similar then? His record certainly is something to look back on, some reports even claim his number could be breaking the 100 mark but the downed planes are unconfirmed. In all I think about 70-75 of his victories are indeed confirmed?

    As an aside, as anyone read his autobiography?

    Amazon.com: The Red Fighter Pilot: The Autobiography of the Red Baron (9780979181337): Manfred Von Richthofen, J. Ellis Barker: Books
     
  19. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Mehar,

    no - from what I have read, he was already a cold blooded character before he became a fighter ace.
    [​IMG]

    I have not read the above mentioned book- but many exerpts from the German historian Wolfgang Schmidt. Who has a rather pragmatic approach towards Richthofen and leaves aside the romantic and faireness fables of Soldiers during WWI.

    Hello Heinrich,
    Me too, me too :D and Carl propably has one soaked in cognac with cheese, sausage and iron cross staines on it, forgotton under the seat of his Kuebelwagen parked in the V2 Bunker :D

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  20. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thanks Ange and, I also hope soemday to meet some other "vons" as well ;-))
     

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