Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by corpcasselbury, Nov 19, 2004.
Definately worth a go on the 'if it's stupid and it works, it aint stupid' principal.
In reading about the exploits of the American PT boats in the Mediterranean, I ran across references to their battles with a type of German vessel called an "F-lighter", which is described as a converted cargo type vessel heavily armed and armored. Does anyone know anything specific about these craft?
A shallow-draft 'lighter' (a bit like a barge) armed with a lot of automatic weapons and usually an 88mm or similar heavy gun too. They were a bugger to sink as the shallow draft ruled out torpedoes.
Yes, I remember that. Not something I'd want to get into a fight with. Anyone know where photos of such craft may be found? I've long wanted to see what an F-lighter actually looked like.
What were the most spectacular actions of the MTB/PT/S-boats?
The only ones I can really think of are the S-Boats against Operation Tiger in April 1944 and sinking a destroyer off Normandy.
The Italians successfully interceoted the Pedestal convoy.
Surigao Strait got its start with actions by PTs. The torpedoes accomplished little, but the intelligence was important. Later Abukuma did get hit. One PT was damaged and beached.
How about minelayers and especially minesweepers? I dont actually know anything about minesweepers and minesweeping, maybe someone could provide information how minesweeping is actually done.
Tiornu: Those books you sent arrived today. Incredibly well packed, I've never seen anything like that, not even our (in)famous postal organization couldn't harm those books with their packetsmashing facilities.
Hee! Beware, ye packetsmashers, I take no prisoners!
Spoken like a true Imperial, Tiornu! :lol:
Interestingly enough, both Japan and Germany both used minelayers and sweepers as convoy escorts; they could be very formidable opponents for submarines and light surface craft such as PT boats. The most interesting ships of this type were in Britain's Royal Navy: WELSHMAN and MANXMAN, large, well-armed, and incredibly fast (40 knots!) vessels that, due to their huge carrying capacity, were used on many supply runs to Malta.
There was an article in Warship 1994 in which the author describes his disappointment as a crewmen on an Abdiel when he saw the equipment on the compass platform graded for speeds up to 33 knots and no higher. In service conditions the ships would probably max out around 36 knots.
For WW2 moored mines. Each boat has a 'pavane' motorised float running off to one side (usually starboard). This float is connected by a wire that runs under the surface. This wire is obviously dragged (or 'swept') through the water, and cuts the morring lines of any mines there. The mines foloat to the surface and are detonated with rifle fire.
Minesweepers work in teams, with each boat staggered to be just inside the 'swept' area from the boat ahead of them, so only the first boat is in any serious danger.
Just while we're on the subject did they ever find a way to destroy presure and magnetic mines (short of sailing a ship over them)?
Magnetic mines were destroyed by aircraft.
Flown low over the water & with a big magnetic ring attached, they would activate the mine but, because they were flying, not get destroyed.
"Vickers Wellington DWI: To combat the magnetic mines dropped around British shores early in the war, RAE and Admiralty Research Laboratory urgently developed a degaussing system comprising a ring of 51-ft (15.55-m) diameter, which when energised by electric current and flown at low speed and altitude above the mines, caused them to explode."
from http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/ ... 20variants).htm
The Germans used the Ju52 in the same way.
the germans also used the Ha 139B
I always forget about that plane. A shame really, as it is quite pleasing to the eye.
(this is not the minsweeping version, obviously!)
Indeed it is. Not as utalitarian looking as most German types of the period.
Hi to everybody. I'm new here.
Does anyone know anything about axis torpedo boat operations on lake Ladoga( Leningrad ) . I found casual reference in one aviation book. It mentions one operation of strumovik against MAS and S-boats. The first and only time i heard that Italians operated that far north and about .
I know the Germans dispatched KS 3, 4, 8, and 22 to Lake Ladoga. A number of KM- and KS-boats served on Lake Peipus.
Four MAS boats (MAS 526-529) operated on Lake Ladoga. Oncoming winter cut their operational time to about two months. They were withdrawn and later transferred to Finnish control.