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Turning Points

Discussion in 'World War 2' started by -DMPN- Founderer, Jan 25, 2006.

  1. -DMPN- Founderer

    -DMPN- Founderer New Member

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    In your opinion, what was most likely the first step to the fall of Nazi Germany? Consider all of the angles.
     
  2. Ossian phpbb3

    Ossian phpbb3 New Member

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    I'm tempted to say the invasion of Poland in September 1939.... or possibly as far back as 1933, when the Nazi party came to power.

    Actually a more probable first step was the invasion of the USSR in 1941 while Britain was an active enemy in the West. A 2 front was was about the last thing the 3rd Reich needed.

    Tom
     
  3. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    Dunkirk. if the nazi's had sended the army and not the luftwaffe to finisch the job, the BEF would be captured. that are 300.000 soldiers. no matter how many much sacriface Churchill was willing to take, i'll believe a lot of members in the parlement would be demanding for peace as the UK bearly had any troops left
     
  4. Vassilli

    Vassilli New Member

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    good point but I would say barbarossa a battle on 2 fronts was just stupid and uncalculated
     
  5. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    we also forget north africa. that makes three fronts
     
  6. Man

    Man New Member

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    And the war in the air. Four fronts, arguably.
     
  7. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    There was hardly an airwar at all going on in 1941, certainly not enough to prevent the largescale transfer of the Luftwaffe eastwards.

    Arguably the Atlantic could be considered a 4th Front though, but as that is inextricably tied to the fight against the British isles...
     
  8. -DMPN- Founderer

    -DMPN- Founderer New Member

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    I agree that the airwar wasnt a 4 front, but wasnt the the german blitz going on over london during the early part of 1941???

    I think that El Alamein was the turning point for the allies, and i also think Hitler knew that. Thats why he ordered Rommel to stop their push at Libya's and Egypt's border at all cost, which i know was pointless due to his number of panzers, ammo, and fuel. Thats just my opinion anyways.
     
  9. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    El Alamein was a tiny battle compared to what was going on in the East at the same time. While a single German Army Corps was defeated in Africa, a whole German army was being completely obliterated in Stalingrad, along with the relief forces and the attempted supply by air.

    The first step on the path to Germany's defeat would have to be a battle that showed Germany's limits as an expansive force in Europe. Hence I'd say the Battle of Britain is the best choice.
     
  10. lynn1212

    lynn1212 New Member

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    too late

    by th etime the battle of britain was fought it was alreaty too late for germany to win. even if hitler had not gone after the ussr stalin would have stabbed him in the back at the first chance he had. germany never had a chance at willing a long war no matter what happened. once the first attempts failed she was done. ditto for japan
     
  11. -DMPN- Founderer

    -DMPN- Founderer New Member

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    I dont know, their was massive amounts of German tanks on the Russian Boarder. I think they could have repelled the Russians, for however long it would have taken own britian up. liek Stalin wouldnt have had a chance against the German in an attacking situation. They were just to strong at that point.
     
  12. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Re: too late

    But the Battle of Britain is arguably the first attempt that actually failed. Hence why I singled it out. I agree with everything else you said.

    Founderer: both the Russian and the German armies of 1941 were trained mostly as offensive forces, and it is likely that the Germans would have fared as badly as the Russians when forced to fight defensively.
     
  13. -DMPN- Founderer

    -DMPN- Founderer New Member

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    So do u think that the war would have been over earlier, or if the russians made an offensive they would have been stop at a german city like berlin, just like the Germans where stoped at city of stalingrad. and maybe Germany would have made a counter offensive and pushed passed stalingrad and into Moscow
     
  14. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    :lol:

    Stalingrad wasn't at all in front of Moscow. In fact Moscow is considerably further west than Stalingrad. The push made by the Germans in Southern Russia in the spring of 1942 wasn't aimed at Moscow but at the Caucasus and the Volga river.

    I do not presume to know what would have happened if Russia had attacked in the summer of 1941 instead of or ahead of Germany. However since neither army was well trained for defensive operations and both were well prepared for offensive action, I think it's safe to say that the attacker held all the cards, which the execution of operation Barbarossa seems to prove.
     
  15. Vassilli

    Vassilli New Member

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    I think we shouldn't underestimate the airwar, especially the battle of britain and later on the luftwaffe was very important in the beginning of the battle for stalingrad...
     
  16. rbagen

    rbagen New Member

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    The moment hitler decided to hate the people in thye territorys stalin had invaded
     
  17. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Well, yeah. Although that does mean that the war was lost before it began, and, in fact, before Hitler came to power!

    Which is not actually too far-fetched...
     
  18. !ACHTUNG!

    !ACHTUNG! New Member

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    BOB i definetly the turning point of the war.Luftwaffe lost it's power and we know the rest of the story.And this isn't the only reason why this happened.Hermann Göring is the second reason.
     
  19. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    El Alamein and Stalingrad also BoB
     
  20. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    maybe it took quite a few wrong turn to loose the war for germany ,
    33 doesn't wash but is cute . 39 poland same same ,in the context of
    loosing a war you have to start one , poland was a good place to start
    no flies on norway it was a shabble but , hey...germany 1 allied 0
    campaign of france ..no drama

    as to the bagging of the british army at
    dunkerque it was... get the brit or get the french , there was the chance of the french recovering and creating some kin of defensive pocket or
    going oversea ,much safer to strangle them while they were stuned like
    ducks. all germans remember the marne when a dead french army rose
    again . pity about all those pommies but hard choices had to be made ,

    my personnal favorite , not taking gibraltar , even by dragging this slimy
    ungrateful mongrel of franco into the war against britain by force if
    nescessary . no gibraltar , the atalantic war looks good from the asturias
    coast and malta become a huge liability supplywise for britain

    battle of britain .naaaahh no muscle behind , sealion was a non starter
    so it was just the flyboys playing with themselves.

    greece and yugoslavia ,was it worth it , to loose four week of good
    weather for the start of barbarossa , probably not , was it a war loosing
    move probably not


    barbarossa .... ho yeaaa...... that was a biggie . what is the point of
    attacking a huge place of wich you have crappy intel and wich supply you
    with your heart desire in resources .All the reason to attack boil down to
    one , mr hitler could not help himself not too


    not going for moscow in september, same as dunkerque desirable but
    there was grief in the ukraine , the losses of production was shattering
    for russia

    treating the eastern people so bad stalin looks good , quite and
    achievement and a credit to the vicious nature of the regime ,
    a good war losing candidate

    going for the south in 42 , completely stupid , not one decent military
    reasons for it ,ever the geostrategic stuff was wobbly ,turkey would not
    get into a shooting war ,they were just cock teasing both side .
    and the petrol did not pan out. the local were friendly and in the case of
    the chechen useful but small beer .

    after stalingad and the moronic declaration of war to the U.S. ( in december 42 ?? ) the question change and is how not loosing the war.
     

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