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U.S. Civil War History bits

Discussion in 'Military History' started by C.Evans, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I agree. I don't think any can compare with Lee. He was an honorable man, a devout Christian, driven by duty, and a military genius. He didn't and wouldn't play politics. When he surrendered and ordered his troops to lay down their arms and go home, the war was for all practical purposes over. Civilian authorities wanted to continue the struggle but Lee had come to symbolize the south and the people followed his lead. Many officers recommended taking to the hills and waging a guerilla war, it would have lasted decades. Lee would have none of it. He spent the rest of his life as an educator.
     
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  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Carl, no rep necessary. Just knowing you enjoyed it means more to me than any number of salutes or rep points. I'm glad I could be of service.
     
  3. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thank you Price and if you have more stuff like this tucked away? i'll be greatful to read it. Ive been out of Civil War studing too long and when I take a break from WWII? that's what I would like to get back into. Ill see if I cna find a few great sites soon as time permits) of some absolutely excellent info on Civil War OrBats to Bios and such. I found these when i was doing research for things that the CC Museum of Science and History had in their store rooms. Sadly, and most likely, none of these things will ever be viewed by the public. This includes rare Muskets, pistols, swords, bayonets, uniform parts, Confederate Canteens (several styles) to a few Kepis.
     
  4. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    While answering a post, the post I intended to answer disappeared so I will just greet everyone to have a good weekend as what I was going to say now makes no sense so I am sorry for my "mispost".
     
  5. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Victor, I know I use strong language when it comes to idiots like those racists but, I intensly dislike that scum. Partly because of their types is partly why those unknowledgable, look at the South and its "colors" as something bad when it was almost no different than the North was. The rst of the inspired ignorance is due to the likings of fools like "the" reverend al aharpton and jesse jackson.
     
  6. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    Try 'Civil War Talk' forum Carl, good people and boy do they know their stuff!!
     
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  7. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Just came back from Hilts' profile page to thank him for a salute. My first thought was that it does my heart good to see that our English brothers understand the proper use of the Confederate battle flag:

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    This picture courtesy of Hilts and a darned fine picture at that.
    Then I got to thinking Harley Davidsons...Steve McQueen...cowboyhats...R.E. Lee...long legged women. I 've never belived in reincarnation but then again I didn't believe in UFO's, and secret antarctic Nazi bases until I came here. Hilts you might be a reincarnated southerner;)
     
  8. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    View attachment 12483

    God Bless The Marines!! Thanks Pricey! Thought you might like my A2 for the Harley??

    Alabama Gal flew out of the 381st Base at Ridgwell. The original Artwork just wasn't 'Dixie' enough for me!! :D
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Carl wrote:
    O.K. Carl, this one is for you and Hilts (because I noticed the St. George's Cross flag and "Carve Her Name With Pride" in his signature line.)

    The Polk Corps Flag, carried by the troops of Polk's Corps Army of Mississippi and later the Army of Tennessee. First issued around the time of the battle of Shiloh.

    [​IMG]

    Gen. Leonidas Polk, the Corps commander had been the Episcopal Bishop of Louisiana (for Bobby/A58) prior to his appointment as a CS General. The flag of the Episcopal Church was a red St. George's Cross and that's where this flags design originated.

    "The Episcopal Church is the official name of the Province of the Anglican Communion in the United States. The Church was organized shortly after the American Revolution when it was forced to break with the Church of England on penalty of treason as Church of England clergy were required to swear allegiance to the British monarch. Today it is divided into nine provinces and has dioceses outside the U.S. The Episcopal Diocese of the Virgin Islands encompasses both American and British territory. In keeping with Anglican tradition and theology, the Episcopal Church considers itself a via media, or middle way, between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism."

    So, early in the war state flags or the Bonnie Blue were carried by most confederate units. As these original flags wore out or were captured, and new units lacking flags joined the armies, more standardized flags were issued. In the Army of Northern Virginia these were typically rectangular, 48" being the most common for infantry units, southern cross types.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Typical ANV type battle flags.

    The Army of Missippi which later became the Army of Tennessee (not to be confused with the Army of the Tennesee which was a Union Army) until 1864 had three distinctive Corps flags.

    The Polk 1st Corps
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    The Hardee 2nd Corps

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    ****Warning WWII related trivia****
    The original commander of this Corps was Gen. Simon Boliver Buckner, he actually designed the flag. He was a Kentuckian and CS General.

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    His son General Simon Boliver Buckner, Jr. commanded Tenth Army during the Battle of Okinawa. He was killed during the battle by Japanese artillery fire and was the highest ranking U.S. Officer to be killed by enemy fire during the war.

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    Buckner is in the foreground with Marine Lt. General Lemuel C. Shepherd on Okinawa.
    Shepherd was a graduate of VMI, class of 1917 (see my 1st post in this thread, talking about VMI was how I got started) and 20th Commandant of the Marine Corps. YUT!!!

    Third Corps

    [​IMG]

    This flag was rectangular and for infantry units averaged 36 x 52 inches. It is a version of this flag that Joseph E. Johnston had issued army wide to the AOT in 1864. It was during this issue that Cleburne's (Patrick Cleburne the "Stonewall of the West") division of Hardee's Corps refused to give up their colors and were allowed to keep them.

    Here are some paintings from my favorite civil war artist, Don Troiani, showing the Hardee flag in battle.

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    Gen. Patrick Cleburne leads his troops in the assault at the battle of Franklin on Nov. 30, 1864.
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    This painting depicts Cleburne at the battle of Missionary Ridge, his men having exhausted their ammo have repulsed the final assault of General W.T. Sherman's Federal troops. They used rocks, rifle butts and bayonets. YUT!!! That's Lookout Mountain, Chattanooga, TN in the background.

    [​IMG]
    Cleburne at Chickamauga. (the Chickamauga/Chattanooga National Military Park is the oldest and largest of the Civil War Battlefield parks. I live right outside it.:cool:)

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    This painting, by Rick Reeves, depicts John C. Breckinridge and his Kentuckians at Chickamauga.

    [​IMG]
    The action in the painting takes place near this spot, Slocomb's Louisiana Battery. (for you Bobby/A58).

    Now Breckinridge, John C., prior to being a CS General had been a congressman, a Senator and Vice President of the United States under James Buchanan. It was this same General Breckinridge that commanded Confederate forces at the battle of New Market, the last major Confederate victory. It was he, that when his lines began to break gave the order, "Put the boys in,...and may God forgive me for the order ..."
    The 257 VMI Cadets, the youngest 12 years old, the majority being 15 and 16 and commanded by 24 year old Commandant of Cadets Lt. Col. Scott Ship made their charge. (IIRC the 12 year old didn't make the charge being forced against his will to stay back and guard the cadets supply wagon, but over half the Corps were 1st year cadets and were in the 15-16 year old age range). They had, upon being called out marched 81 miles in four days to participate in the battle. Breckinridge, never intended to use the Cadets in the fight, when riding past the Cadets prior to it's commencement he said, "Gentlemen, I trust I will not need your services today; but if I do, I know you will do your duty." However, even with the Cadets he was greatly outnumbered.

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    The charge of the VMI Corps of Cadets.

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    A detail from the painting.

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    And finally, the Cadets break the Federal lines and capture their guns. This painting is by my favorite Marine Corps artist Ssgt. Tom Lovell. Note the Cadet on the gun carries the Commonwealth of Virginia battle flag. Their casualties, ten killed or died of wounds and 48 wounded. Among the dead Thomas Jefferson's nephew (for you Skipper).

    I'll end this post where my first post in this thread started, with VMI.

    And a final item for that Texan extraordinare Carl.

    The Texas Brigade ANV in the cornfield at Antietam/Sharpsburg.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Doooh! :headbash: I forgot my bud, Formerjughead! Here's your tie in.

    [​IMG]

    General George S. Patton, Jr., we all know about him. Born in San Gabriel Township, California. (California tie in) His grandfather, George Smith Patton, VMI 1852, commanded the 22nd Virginia Infantry CSA at New Market. He was killed at the Battle of Opequon, 19 September, 1864, leaving behind four children. One of whom, George William Patton, born in 1856, had is name changed to George Smith Patton to honor his dead father. This gentleman was the father of General Patton of WWII fame and was a graduate of VMI class of 1877. General Patton himself attended VMI for his "Rat" year before recieving an appointment to West Point.

    [​IMG]
    George S. Patton, Jr. VMI Cadet picture.

    Additional southern links to the WWII Patton:
    -His great grand father John M. Patton was Governor of Virginia.
    He had eight sons

    -Wallet T. Patton, VMI 1855, was mortally wounded leading the 7th Virginia CSA at Pickett's Charge Gettysburg.
    -The WWII Patton's grandfather, George Smith Patton, VMI 1852, 22nd Virginia Infantry CSA.
    -John M. Patton, Jr. Lt.Col. 21st Virginia Infantry CSA.
    -Issac William Patton, served as an artillery officer in the Mexican War, moved to Louisiana, was a Col. in 22nd Louisiana Infantry CSA. Post war he was Mayor of New Orleans from 1878-1880. (for you Bobby).
    -William McFarland Patton, VMI 1865, fought at New Market with the Corps of Cadets as a Cadet sergeant in Co. B.
    -Hugh W. Patton, attended VMI, do not know if graduated, served as a Lt. in CSA, wounded 2nd Manassas.
    -James French Patton, attended VMI, do not know if graduated, served Lt. in CSA, wounded at Cold Harbor, later served as a Justice on the Virginia Supreme Court.
     
  11. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Thats a bunch of great information USMCPrice! I don´t know so much of the American Civil War, but i think i want to know more of it.
     
  12. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    Mr. Evans,
    I and many of my southern friends revere the gentlemanly chivalry of the south and their great leaders, and have attended some of the great Civil War re-enactments that occur in this state pretty much yearly. Our re-enactments are made more so complete with those from the south that participate with their representation at these events. As most southerners realize, there were many causes in addition to what is commonly accepted as causes for this war. It is one of our saddest wars in cost of lives and suffering so I do not make light of that. I caution everyone to remember the high ideals our soldiers fought for on both sides and hope as fellow country men we always find peaceful ways to rise above those same differences should they re-appear. I do acknowledge that there is abuse of the flags of the south when they are used as vehicles of hate or domination as the National Socialists have adopted it for use as. I thank you and other posters for acknowledging this abuse and the pictures that depict this along with the swastika with the American Flag. I have great respect for Robert E. Lee and his gentlemanly ways he conducted himself through our countrie's trying times. It is clear he was motivated out of a love of his fellow countrymen. I invite all to sometimes view the re-enactments in New Mexico of the Civil War battles that were fought with tactical importance for the eventual outcome of this struggle. You will find the battles to be as tough and rough as those fought in many other areas but being a small state in population we are sometimes left out of the story when told. In fun I will point out our legacy in these wars goes back a great deal of time.....but due to many Lone Star interests in expansion, the concept of Manifest Destiny etc. our statehood was delayed a great deal until 1912.(our small population couldn't out vote those interests to become a state) Soon here, we will celebrate 100 years in this great Union. So I would summarize that we may be young as a state but quite old in our legacy of contributions to our wonderful Union. Those interested can look up the history of the battles of Valverde and Glorietta Pass as starters to understand the Civil War battles in New Mexico. In fun....I will also lay claim in at least a small part to that wonderful trait of Southern Hospitality that is a defining trait amongst traditionalists in the South. The Spaniards in the new world were at the start of many of the plantations of the south before Spain fell out of the expolorations in the Americas. Though they lost out in the final settlement of this continent many traits, habits, and characteristics, were adopted and kept by those moving into these areas. We are all the better for it is how I look at it.
     
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  13. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

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    You dang Rebs and Texans, stay out of our state!!! Ya still think ya own it! : ))
     
  14. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Ya get in troubles my friend by yer comment! They will drink yer likker and marry yer wimmin!!!
     
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  15. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Victor Gomez wrote:
    This is true Victor we all owe much to our Spanish heritage. Here's something for you Victor.

    The 1st Florida Cavalry Regiment was predominately hispanic, here's their flag.

    [​IMG]

    There were many Confederate Regiments predominantly or with large contingents of southerners of hispanic ancestry.

    Here's another:

    The 55th Alabama Infantry Regiment is another unit that had a large number of hispanic soldiers:

    From the State of Alabama archives:
    "This regiment was made up of Snodgrass's and Norwood's battalions, the former of six companies, the latter of five. Snodgrass's battalion was organized at Corinth, in the spring of 1862, out of companies that had been in the service a year at that time, in the orgnizations of other states; and they had suffered severely at Shiloh; while the battalion itself had fought at the first siege of Vicksburg, and in the battles of Baton Rouge and Corinth. Norwood's battalion was organized at Clinton, Miss., out of the five companies of Alabmians which had fought and been captured at Fort Donelson while part of Quarles' "Tennessee" regiment. Organized at Port Hudson, February 1863, with 900 veterans, the Fifty-fifth fought at Baker's Creek in Buford's brigade, Loring's division, losing considerably. It shared in the fighting at Jackson, and the subsequent operations in Mississippi. As part of Scott's brigade, the regiment was attached to the Army of Tennessee in the spring of 1864. It was much reduced by the constant fighting on the retreat from Dalton, but entered the battle of Peach-tree Creek (July 20,1864) with 22 officers and 256 men, and lost in killed and wounded 14 officers, and 155 men. After some further skirmishing, the Fifty-fifth participated in the winter campaign in Tennessee, and its lists of casualties both at Franklin and Nashville were large. Proceeding to North Carolina, the regiment, sadly reduced in strength, surrendered at Greensboro, under Col. Snodgrass."

    Of course I always save the best for last, one of the most famous of all Confederate Brigades had a large percentage of hispanic soldiers in it's Texas Regiments. Hood's Texas Brigade. Composed of the 1st, 4th and 5th Texas Regiments and at various times the 18th Georgia, Hampton's South Carolina Legion or 3rd Arkansas. Originally commanded by Louis T. Wigfall, command passed to hard fighting John Bell Hood when Wigfall left to accept a seat in the Confederate Senate. After Hood was promoted to Division command the brigade passed to Jerome B. Robertson. The Texas Brigade was often referred to as "Lee's Grenadier Guard". While most of their service was with the Army of Northern Virginia they also fought with the Army of Tennessee at Chickamauga. It was the Texans amoung others that broke the federal lines at the Brotherton House and routed the majority of the Union Army.

    [​IMG]
    Brotherton House, Chickamauga, scene of the breakthrough.

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    Fifth Texas Regiment battle flag. (The cross was originally blue it has faded with time).

    [​IMG]

    Battle flag 4th Texas Infantry.

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    Flag belonging to one of Hood's three Texas regiments, not sure which as it's not marked on the flag. Early war type.

    I also put a picture of a 1st Texas battle flag in post #27 and a painting of the Texas Brigade at Antietam in post #49.
    I gave this quote earlier and it is in relation to the action in the painting I posted for Carl in #49.

    "This Texas Flag was carried by the 1st Texas Infantry into the Cornfield at Sharpsburg. After 20 minutes of savage fighting, 82.3% of the regiment was dead or wounded, the highest casualty rate suffered by any unit during the war. After seven color bearers were killed carrying the flag, it was found on the field after the battle, surrounded by dead Texans."
    How many of those white trash, retards realize that many of the men mentioned in the quote were hispanic. Men that fought and died valiantly under the flag these idiots now abuse.

    There were French, Irish, Scottish, English, German, Italian, Spanish, and men of many other ancestries that fought under these colors. There were even American Indian units. It is a shame that neo-nazi's and other groups have attached meanings to the flag it didn't have. I wonder how the Neo-Nazi's explain Judah P. Benjamin, Confederate Secretary of State and a Jew? How about Sir Moses Ezekial, VMI 1866, fought at New Market as a VMI Cadet, became a world famous sculptor, was Jewish, and produced the Confederate War Memorial at Arlington National Cemetary? Ezekial is buried at the base of the Memorial. Guess what Moses Ezekial, Knighted, world famous sculptor had placed upon his headstone? Simply, "Moses Ezekiel, Sergeant of Company C, Battalion of Cadets of the Virginia Military Institute."


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    Moses Ezekial as a VMI Cadet.

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    Confederate War Memorial Arlington Cemetary.

    So here's the Texas Brigade at 2nd Manassas, take pride in the fact that many of these men were of Spanish heritage.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    What a kind and informative post! I am thankful for the quick assemblage of these items to so readily view so quickly and I am also thankful for your research that shows how many different kinds of people it took to truly make up the South and I continue to think we are all the better for each group that has played a part in enriching our heritage. It is important to know that it was a diverse group. I will also make mention of the Buffalo Soldiers whom in recent times had their graves moved from various parts of New Mexico to the veterans graveyard in Santa Fe. I am also aware that I believe there are efforts going on to recover and relocate some Confederate graves that were found to exist and may be moved to better and more respectable locations so work continues here to respect our veterans of both sides. Someone else may know better than me the progress in that area. Thanks.
     
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  17. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Its a very interesting war to study mi amigo :)) Its certainly one I uesd to cut my military history teeth on. :))
     
  18. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Heh heh, yer lernin quicklee :lol::lol: and glad I already finished my hot chocolade already or id have spewed sem on the puter mit that one.
     
  19. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    OK guys and Ladies, Vic is now a member of our exclusive community!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Ulithi wrote:
    No worries my friend, no more invasions just visits and we'll bring the beer and likker', we still control the source of my favorite.

    [​IMG]

    Jack Daniels, Lynchburg Tennessee.

    Gebirgsjaeger wrote:

    Now you might need to worry Ulrich. We have identified two valuable resources in Bavaria that might warrant an invasion.

    [​IMG]

    Good Bavarian beer and the hot beer girls.;)
     

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