Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

U.S. Civil War History bits

Discussion in 'Military History' started by C.Evans, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Been a while, so...
    “For sugar the government often got sand; for coffee, rye; for leather, something no better than brown paper; for sound horses and mules, spavined beasts and dying donkeys; and for serviceable muskets and pistols, the experimental failures of sanguine inventors, or the refuse of shops and foreign armories.” So wrote Harper’s Monthly journalist Robert Tomes in July 1864. What Tomes was describing was far from uncommon during the American Civil War, a war that many have put on high moral ground beneath the umbrella of righteousness. But in that war, as with most wars throughout history, thievery and corruption ran rampant. This corruption, involving not only suppliers and manufacturers in the North but also high government officials, resulted in the unnecessary loss of life for many Union soldiers and was so costly as to prolong the war many months after it might have come to an end."
    The Days of Shoddy: Worst Manufacturers of the Civil War - Warfare History Network
     
  2. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2020
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    The Shire
    Similar complaints were made about the War of 1812 with one Sam Wilson being accused. He has been later immortalised as Uncle Sam
     
  3. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    8,820
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    The Southern Soldiers got a small fraction of logistical supplies that the Northern Soldiers we’re getting.
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,706
    Likes Received:
    2,349
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Not sure what that has to do with corruption and shoddy supplies & equipment...
     
  5. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    8,820
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Just pointing out that even with corruption to deal with and shoddy supplies and equipment that the Northern soldiers had was superior in every aspect to what Southern soldiers had available to them. Maybe I didn’t word it clearly.
     
  6. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Now, this has got to be some kind of record, surely?
    The last known widow of a Civil War soldier has died at the age of 101, ending a remarkable life story that she had kept to herself for over 80 years.
    When Maudie Hopkins of Arkansas died in 2008, it was believed that there were no known Civil War widows left in the nation.
    Then, in December 2017, Helen Viola Jackson of Marshfield, Missouri, decided to tell her own astonishing tale.
    'I never wanted to share my story with the public,' she said in 2018. 'I didn't feel that it was that important and I didn't want a bunch of gossip about it.'
    Jackson explained that she was 17 when she married 93-year-old James Bolin, in 1936.
    Bolin was a friend of her family, and the teenage Jackson was sent by her father to assist him in his old age.
    He was unable to pay her for her service, and so he suggested they marry, in order for her to claim his Union pension.
    Jackson, one of ten children, agreed - but on the condition she could keep her unmarried name, and continue living with her family on the farm. Bolin agreed, and they remained married until his death on June 18, 1939.
    Jackson never remarried, and had no children. She also never claimed his pension, after Bolin's step-daughter threatened to smear her reputation if she did so.
    'All a woman had in 1939 was her reputation,' she said.
    'I didn't want them all to think that I was a young woman who had married an old man to take advantage of him.'
    Jackson's death, and her story, was confirmed by the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War "
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9116661/Last-widow-Civil-War-veteran-dies-101-Woman-married-93-year-old-aged-17-passes-away.html
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Don't think we've had a conspiracy theory in this thread before!
    "A lawyer has claimed the FBI secretly discovered $400 million in stolen Civil War gold bars buried in a Pennsylvania forest.
    Harrisburg attorney William Cluck said Thursday he'd learned the name of the federal judge who ordered all records of the March 2018 excavation to be sealed.
    'I got what I wanted,' Cluck told PennLive after submitting a Right-to-Know appeal.
    He said he can now apply to the judge in question to unseal the records in the case.
    Cluck's client is Finders Keepers LLC, treasure hunters who say they were banned from digging at Dents Run, where legend says gold bullion was buried.
    The FBI later carried out work at the forest but said they didn't find anything.
    According to the 155-year-old tale, a Union Army wagon train was carrying two tons of gold on a 400-mile journey between Wheeling, West Virginia, and Gettysburg.
    The gold was sent by President Abraham Lincoln to pay Union soldiers but first had to make a stop at the US Mint in Philadelphia.
    It was last spotted in St Marys, Pennsylvania, travelling northeast towards the capital.
    When the wagon train didn't arrive at the Mint, searchers were sent out who discovered empty wagons and the bodies of dead soldiers.
    Various accounts say that the lieutenant charged with leading the wagon had fallen into a fever and divulged the secret of their cargo to the lower ranking soldiers.
    Roguish elements within his own squadron are then said to have slain the rest and made off with the treasure.
    In any case, despite the best efforts to track down the gold it was never found.
    Different versions say that the shipment was either carrying 26 gold bars or 52, each weighing 50 pounds.
    In today's money it would be worth between $35 million and $70 million.
    Cluck's clients put the value at $400 million, clearly believing there is more than just the single tonne of gold.
    Treasure hunters have been searching the forests of Pennsylvania for decades to try and find the legendary stash of gold.
    In 2012, Finders Keepers said they'd found the gold but the state would not allow them to dig it.
    They say that Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources barred them from excavating the area."
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9201393/Did-FBI-secretly-400m-stolen-civil-war-gold-buried-Pennsylvania.html
     
  8. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    An interesting wee article on a subject I can't recall having heard about. Was there a "stabbed in the back" myth amongst ex-Confederates?
    "The Confederate States of America fought two wars, one against the armed forces of the United States and one against fellow Southerners who joined either the Union Army or pro-Union guerrilla groups. Although they came from all classes, most Southern Unionists differed socially, culturally, and economically from their region’s dominant prewar, slave-owning planter class. As many as 100,000 men living in the 11 Confederate states eventually served in the Union Army. The majority of them were from Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia/West Virginia."
    Southerner vs. Southerner: Union Supporters Below the Mason-Dixon Line - Warfare History Network
     
  9. Riter

    Riter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    148
    I have serious doubts about a gold delivery to pay soldiers. Greenbacks is lighter.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,706
    Likes Received:
    2,349
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    I think that is just our local legend. The gold shipment was bound for Wheeling, West Virginia, and never got there.
     
  11. Riter

    Riter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    148
    Like the gold of the Confederacy that left Richmond with Davis. That I think was real.
     
  12. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
  13. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    8,820
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
  14. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    A-58 likes this.
  15. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Something a bit different this time. Thinking of registering for this, looks interesting-
    "Wessex Archaeology
    StSnSpponotnsnmmisoooreruruedd ·
    Join us this Wednesday at 12.00pm (midday) for an unmissable new webinar - “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn”: the archaeology of the American Civil War in Britain.
    In the week that sees the 160th anniversary of the start of the American Civil War, senior maritime archaeologist Graham Scott will use a historic shipwreck in Liverpool Bay to explore the controversial part that British sailors, shipbuilders and bankers played in the conflict that tore America apart and emancipated millions of enslaved persons.
    Register for your place now to join this thought-provoking talk, which will be followed by a Q&A with Graham:
    https://register.gotowebinar.com/regi.../2983101904264508685
    Find out more about all our upcoming events here:
    https://www.wessexarch.co.uk/events"
     
  16. Riter

    Riter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    148
    I'm glad to see Banks and Butler making the list of bad generals. Burnside was horrible at Antietam, Fredericksburg but did credibly in North Carolina. His plan at Fredericksburg was sound but the execution was poor. Movement of the pontoon bridge was far too slow and allowed Lee to rush down and fortify Marye's Heights. Even then his orders at Fredericksburg were too vague and Meade's successful attack was unsupported. The race to Richmond never happened as Burnsides planned. At Antietam, too much time was wasted at the bridge when there was a ford downriver. Opps. That allowed for A. P. Hill's Light Division to arrive from Harper's Ferry and roll up Burnsides. Must be something about Burnsides and water not going well together.

    Turner Ashby was highly overrated too. He never got the cavalry in the Shenandoah so it could perform effectively in the traditional cavalry roles. Wade Hampton was better. Good book is Robert Krick's Smoothbore Volley That Doomed the Confederacy.

    Highly underrated is Lew Wallace, the loser of Monacocy. He stand bloodied Early enough to slow him down and allow the remainder of the VI Corps to save DC. He was also the governor of the New Mexico Territory and offered Billy the Kid a pardon. Last, he authored Ben Hur while in New Mexico

    Sigel did well at Missionary Ridge. He organized his artillery (he was after all an artilleryman) and shelled the daylights out of the Confederates before launching a 10,000 strong infantry attack that swept away the survivors. Something about taking shelter among rocks results in rock shards cutting up your troops wasn't understood by the Confederates there. But as an independent commander, Sigel was mostly lacking.

    West Point grad Quincy Gillmore deserves honorable mention. While his capture of Fort Pulaski earned him a reputation, his plan to capture Charleston fizzled when it took over sixty days to capture Morris Island (Battery Wagner) and even after its fall, his failure to capture Fort Sumter for the Navy to sail into Charleston Harbor and bombard the city directly failed. It took a Virginia interlude before Gillmore realized that it was better to flank Charleston (he landed North) and between that and Sherman's approaching army, Charleston was abandoned. Way too long for a sideshow. Gillmore lacked Grant's flexibility and when his original four stage plan failed, he didn't adapt.

    Jeff Davis for a West Point educated man should have known batter. His conduct of the war was too affected by politics and in defending everything, he defended nothing. Frederick the Great said, "He who defends everything, defends nothing." The Confederacy didn't have the strength to defend every state and should have exercised a flexible defense. Even at Vicksburg he told Gardner to stay put (or return since Gardner was marching north) at Port Hudson. There were serious implications later in the war from that.

    Another very poor Confederate general was Henry Hopkins Sibley who led the ill fated Confederate expedition to Glorietta. His goal was to capture Fort Union further north in New Mexico. Even if Sibley won at Glorietta, he didn't have the man power or artillery to capture Fort Union. The Union built a star fort over a mile's distance from the commanding bluffs. Sibley was unaware of it. He also thought his men could forage their way there in a state that could barely support its own residents. Sibley also though that the New Mexicans (mostly Hispanics) would welcome the Texans (the hated gringos). Sibley's greatest achievement was being immortalized by the Sergio Leone flick, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly where the tavern keeper scornfully said, "Sibley in the white hat. He looks dead." BTW, UKCWRT published an article of mine on Glorietta in their magazine, Crossfire.
     
    A-58 likes this.
  17. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    One of the most horric stories I've ever read.
    "There are many incredible war stories of survival that defy all logic or explanation. Jacob Miller’s survival was nothing short of miraculous.
    Miller, a native of Logansport, served in Company K of the 9th Indiana Infantry during the Civil War. In one of his numerous battles, Miller was struck squarely in the forehead with a bullet, which tore a jagged hole and entered his brain, allowing doctors to view the pulsations of his brain. The wound never healed.
    Miller relayed his story and personal experiences in an interview he gave to a Joliet, Illinois, newspaper in 1911."
    Indiana Civil War soldier survived bullet to forehead
     
    Half Track and belasar like this.
  18. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,126
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    "Though over 400 women served in the Civil War posing as male soldiers, Williams was the first African American woman to enlist and the only documented woman to serve in the United States Army, while disguised as a man, during the Indian Wars. Williams is also the only known female Buffalo Soldier. Williams' determination to serve her country demonstrates the extraordinary feats women have accomplished simply trying to live their lives."
    www.nps.gov/people/cwilliams.htm
     
    Half Track likes this.
  19. Half Track

    Half Track Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    541
    Location:
    Chambersburg Pennsylvania
  20. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    533
    Location:
    London UK
    I remember reading with great pleasure a three volume series: The Coming Fury, Never Call Retreat and Terrible Swift Sword. Is this a different trilogy?
     
    GRW and Half Track like this.

Share This Page