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U.S. Civil War History bits

Discussion in 'Military History' started by C.Evans, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Okay, I don't have enough time as it is and now I'm off on another tangent! It may be a while before the basement rooms get finished. Looking forward to the pictures. I bought two books on the Civil War last year at a garage sale (buck each) that were printed in 1922? Need to get them out. I just had to 'Google"Lt. Col. D.W. Magee and found this:

    "In February, 1864, the Regiment joined in a reconnoissance [sic], going as far as Buzzard Roost, where it took part in the engagement of that name, losing one killed and seven wounded. Then returned to camp where it stayed until March 6, when marched to Lee's and Gordon's Mills; (here on account of sickness Lieutenant Colonel D. W. Magee resigned, and Major Allen L. Fahnestock was commissioned as Lieutenant Colonel, and Captain J. F. Thomas as Major.) Stayed there till May 3, then marched to Ringgold, where General Sherman was concentrating his grand army for the march upon Atlanta; left Ringgold on the 5th, and arrived at Tunnel Hill the 7th."
    History of Eighty-Sixth (86th) Illinois Infantry

    The town of Lancaster they refer to is about 4 miles Northwest of Glasford and today consists of the Lancaster Cemetery and about 5 houses. Lancaster was one of the earliest settlements and as the railroad moved so did the residents with most ending up in Glasford. My Grandparents and other family members are buried there and if I remember correctly one of the oldest headstones is of someone who was born in the 1760's.

    ps: "Also since Biak is my buddy", that's one of the finest compliments I have received! :)
     
  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Gordon here's another site, perhaps better than the first one I gave you. Beware though, inquiry into this area can become addictive and both sides of the argument make convincing arguments. :salute:


    Black Confederates in the Civil War
     
  3. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Again, many thanks!
     
  4. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    La France dans la partie 1 de Guerre civile

    I've decided to break the French influence on the Civil War into multiple posts because even a cursory examination would result in a unacceptably long post. The same goes for British influence. The Civil War did have world wide implications.

    The M-1857 12lb. Napoleon.

    The 12lb Napoleon Gun, in official U.S. Army speak the "light 12-pounder gun". This was the most popular, most common and most effective overall, of Civil War artillery pieces. It was a smoothbore gun with a bore diameter of 4.62 inches and a maximun effective range of 1619 yards. It had nearly the range of rifled pieces and all the anti-personnel lethality of the howitzer. It was capable of firing all four basic types of artillery rounds used at the time (solid shot, shell, spherical case and cannister). It was developed by Emperor Napoleon, III of France. The Napoleon was responsible for more casualties than all other Civil War artillery pieces combined!

    trivia:
    "The copper that was used in the making of the bronze Napoleons at the famous Tredegar Iron Works of Richmond, Virginia, came primarily from one source: The Ducktown mines near Chattanooga Tennessee. Each Napoleon produced by Tredegar, and presumably most other foundries, required over 1000 pounds of copper."

    A little background from the Antietam National Park website:

    Artillery Basics
    The Artillery was a separate, specialized branch of the army that supported the Infantry. The basic organizational unit for cannons was called a battery, made up of four to six guns with approximately 70-100 men commanded by a Captain. There were many models and sizes of Civil War cannon, but there were two basic types--smoothbore and rifled. A smoothbore cannon barrel is just like a pipe, smooth on the inside. In contrast, a rifled cannon has grooves cut into the inside of the barrel, which forced the ammunition to rotate like a football. A rifled cannon was more accurate and had a greater range than a smoothbore gun.

    [​IMG]

    12lb. Napoleon, most napoleons were bronze like the gun pictured, the confederacy did produce some iron Napoleons but bronze was safer, produced a stronger barrel and less likely to burst.
     
  5. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Hey, you have really great informations USMPrice! Do you have informations of the Naval warfare especially of the armoured ships like the CSS Virginia or the USS Monitor?
     
  6. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    It's ironic that you asked that Ulrich, because what I had intended as my second post on France and the Civil War, pertained to an Ironclad. So here goes.

    La France et la partie de Guerre civile deux - avec un poste spécial pour Ulrich

    We have already mentioned some of the confederate ships built by Britain for the confederacy, the CSS Alabama and the CSS Shenandoah. The last confederate Ironclad was actually built in France, by shipbuilder L'Arman in Bordeaux France. During much of the Civil War, Emperor Napoleon, III had sought to intervene on the side of the confederacy.

    From Wikipedia:
    "During 1861 to 1862, Napoleon III positioned France to intervene in the American Civil War on the side of the Confederacy. The United States repeatedly warned that this meant war but the emperor inched steadily toward officially recognizing the Confederacy, especially after the crash of France's cotton textile industry and his successes in Mexico. Through 1862, Napoleon III met unofficially with Confederate diplomats, raising their hopes that he would unilaterally recognize the Confederacy. The emperor, however, could do little without the support of Britain, which refused to recognize the Confederacy. In 1863 the Confederacy realized there was no longer any chance of intervention, and expelled the French and British consuls, who were advising their citizens not to enlist in the Confederate Army."

    *The bold faced statement is to draw your attention to a very important factor when studying the Civil War, the importance of cotton. In 1860 the south produced between 2/3's and 3/4's of the entire world cotton supply. The raw material that fueled Britain's, France's and the US northern textile industries. Nearly 60 percent of all United States exports were cotton and at the time, the primary source of tax revenue to the US Treasury was from tariff's. Historians liken the importance of cotton to the economies of Britain, France and the US to that of oil in modern economies.

    The Confederate government, with the consent of the French government, contracted with L'Arman to build a 1390ton ironclad ram, the Stonewall. The ship was laid down in 1863 and launched in June 1864. When launched the diplomatic situation between France and the CSA had deteriorated and the sale was stopped and the ship was embargoed and sold to the Dutch. Now here's the rest of the story about the CSS Stonewall.
    From Wikipedia:

    "On January 6, 1865 the vessel took on a Confederate crew at Copenhagen under the command of Captain T. J. Page, CSN and was recommissioned the CSS Stonewall while still at sea.
    The arrival of the "formidable" Stonewall in America was dreaded by the Union, and several ships tried to intercept her, among them the USS Kearsarge and the USS Sacramento. The Stonewall sprung a leak, however, after leaving Quiberon, Brittany and Captain Page steamed her in to Spain for repairs. In February and March, the USS Niagara and the Sacramento kept watch from a distance as the Sumter lay anchored off Corunna during February 1865. On March 24, the Stonewall steamed out to sea, while Captain Page challenged the U.S. Navy vessels, which turned and fled, fearful to engage in the attack. Finding that the enemy had run, Captain Page steamed for Lisbon, with the intent to cross the Atlantic Ocean from there and attack at Port Royal, the base of Major General Sherman's attack on South Carolina.
    The Stonewall reached Nassau on May 6, and then sailed on to Havana, Cuba, where Captain Page learned of the war's end. There he decided to turn her over to the Spanish Captain General of Cuba for the sum of $16,000. The vessel was then turned over to United States authorities in return for reimbursement of the same amount. She was temporarily de-commissioned, stationed at a U.S. Navy dock, until she was offered for sale to the Japanese government of the Tokugawa shogunate."

    [​IMG]


    Since we have discussed the Confederacy's last Ironclad, we can discuss the Confederacy's first, the CSS Virginia, also frequently referred to as the Merrimack. When Virginia seceeded in 1861, state troops were sent to seize the Gosport Navy Yard (now Norfolk Naval Shipyard). Federal forces attempted to destroy the base and military material before abandoning it. The USS Merrimack a steam frigate was at the navy yard and was burned but was not completely destroyed. Confederate forces salvaged the machinery and lower hull and upon this built a deck and superstructure for an Ironclad ram, the CSS Virginia.

    For Ulrich here's the official US Naval Historical site's information on this ironclad and it's opponent, the Federal Ironclad USS Monitor. In the March 1862 at the naval battle at Hampton Roads, these two ships engaged in the world's first battle between iron ships.

    Civil War Naval Actions - Action between USS Monitor and CSS Virginia

    Here's another link from the same site for all Confederate Ships.

    Confederate States' Ships


    [​IMG]

    The CSS Virginia (L) engages the USS Monitor (R) in the naval battle at Hampton Roads, Virginia.
     
  7. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    A lot, most? Of the stuff we've posted here is all Eastern theatre and AoT.

    Where is the best place to find info on 'Ride with the Devil'................the Kansas - Missouri theatre? John Mosby and his Black Flag. I don't see too many books about that rather brutal part of the Civil War.
     
  8. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Thank you much for the links and the information USMCPrice! Its very interesting to see the naval development this war brought. Ironclads and submarines like the C.S.S. H.L.Hunley. Torpedo´s and so on, the Civil war helped the Armies to make a good development on the most things like Navy, Fortifications, Strategy and Arms. It is interesting to see it from that point too.
     
  9. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    Something for my mate Carl...................

    Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
    Old times there are not forgotten,
    Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.

    In Dixie Land, where I was born in,
    early on one frosty mornin',
    Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.

    I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
    In Dixie Land I'll take my stand
    to live and die in Dixie.
    Away, away, away down south in Dixie.
    Away, away, away down south in Dixie
     
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  10. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Ahhhh, thems great words and one wonders if it could have replayed the National Anthem we now have. I'd rep you too if the site would allow it. Thanks mate--definately an A+ for this one ;-))

    Can you dig up the words to: Bonnie Blue Flag as well as Garry Owen? ;-)) I know G.O. is a Yank song but it also sounds great. ;-))
     
  11. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    There's a movie out on dvd called "Ride With the Devil", and you might try watching "The Outlaw Josey Wales" too. They cover the guerrilla war in Missouri. John Mosby was not affiliated with those people. Mosby operated in NE Virgina, in command of a Partisan Ranger Cavalry Battalion. You might have Mosby confused with Bloody Bill Anderson and William C. Quantrill. The last two were little more than mounted white trash thugs in uniforms.

    The guerrilla war that raged in the western theater was terrible and costly. I know that you inquired about the conflict in Missouri, but in western Louisiana it was extremely unpleasant and bloody too. After the failure of Union General Banks' Red River Campaign, he withdrew his forces back to the Baton Rouge area and held there in static positions for the rest of the war. The Confederate forces moved down and established lines 40-50 miles away, thus creating a no-man's land between the two armies. In that area, there was no authority. The militia had been called up and attached to the army, as were the police and sheriffs. Groups of armed deserters, runaway slaves, and thugs in general roamed the countryside at will destroying, stealing, burning, raping, looting and just being plain un-neighborly in general. At one point, the Confederate commander contacted the Union commander and asked for a two week truce in order to move into the no-man's land to clear out the uglies. The truce was agreed to (the thugs had been attacking and looting Union wagon trains and the smaller camps as well), and regular Confederate Cavalry swept the countryside clear of the unwanted, un-invited and un-neighborly guests. The truce was extended for a few days to finish the job, then it was back to the war for everyone. Years ago I read one book (can't remember the name or where I got it from) that covered the sufferings of the people in western Louisiana during that era, and that was the first and only time that I felt sick about what went on during the ACW. Never again did I ever think about the "glory of war" without thinking of the suffering and hardships of the folks back home. The saying "War is Hell" was an understatement.
     
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  12. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Hilts, Bobby done nailed it for you, very good info.
    Those are my feelings about Quantrill and his thugs also. The only good thing about Quantrill is that he wasn't a native born southerner, he was born in Canal Dover, Ohio and apparently spent little if any time in the south prior to the outbreak of the war. A number of his thugs also went on to gain notoriety post war as outlaws, Jessie and Frank James, and the Younger boys, Cole and Jim. The confederate guerillas union counterparts, the "Jayhawkers" and "Redlegs" were as bad or even worse, engaging in arson, rape, murder and robbery. Another great tragedy is that immediately postwar, when legitimate veterans, paroled from the real confederate armies returned home after the war, they were murdered in the hundreds and federal occupation forces just looked the other way.

    As Bobby noted John Singleton Mosby operated in Virginia, in the Shenandoah Valley. The area he operated in became known as Mosby's confederacy. He and his troops actually acted in concert with regular confederate forces on a number of occasions.

    Heres a good link on Mosby from the University of Virginia, be sure to check out all the pages linked at the bottom of the main page. Good info.

    Southern Honor and Col. John Singleton Mosby

    Your question also brought to mind the old John Wayne movie "The Horse Soldiers", if you haven't seen it, watch it. It is a fictionalized account of Grierson’s Raid, of 17 April- 2 May 1863. Col. Benjamin Henry Grierson's raid was a diversion undertaken during Grant's Vicksburg Campaign, it was probably the most effective federal cavalry raid of the war. Originating in LaGrange, Tennessee near Memphis, they raided down through Mississippi and Louisiana, ending up in Baton Rouge.
     
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  13. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    Carl, your wish is my command...............

    The Bonnie Blue Flag

    We are a band of brothers and native to the soil
    Fighting for our Liberty, With treasure, blood and toil
    And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far
    Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!
    Chorus:
    Hurrah! Hurrah!
    For Southern rights, hurrah!
    Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
    2. As long as the Union was faithful to her trust
    Like friends and like brethren, kind were we, and just
    But now, when Northern treachery attempts our rights to mar
    We hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
    Chorus
    3. First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand
    Then came Alabama and took her by the hand
    Next, quickly Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida
    All raised on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
    Chorus
    4. Ye men of valor gather round the banner of the right
    Texas and fair Louisiana join us in the fight
    Davis, our loved President, and Stephens statesmen rare
    Now rally round the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
    Chorus
    5. Now here's to brave Virginia, the old Dominion State,
    With the young Confederacy at last has sealed her fate,
    And spurred by her example, now other states prepare
    To hoist high the bonnie blue flag that bears a single star.
    Chorus[2]
    6. Then cheer, boys, cheer, raise a joyous shout
    For Arkansas and North Carolina now have both gone out,
    And let another rousing cheer for Tennessee be given,
    The single star of the Bonnie Blue Flag has grown to be eleven.
    Chorus
    7. Then here's to our Confederacy, strong we are and brave,
    Like patriots of old we'll fight, our heritage to save;
    And rather than submit to shame, to die we would prefer,
    So cheer for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
    Chorus[3]

    An' cos you're a mate, I'll see about that yankee song...................
     
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  14. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    Yeah! That's the bloke I meant, Quantrill! He had a black flag didn't he?
     
  15. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    Carl, they say it's a 7th Cavalry song, this 'Garry Owen'...........and weren't the 7th formed after 'The war of Northern Aggression'

    Let Bacchus' sons be not dismayed
    But join with me, each jovial blade
    Come, drink and sing and lend your aid
    To help me with the chorus:

    Chorus
    Instead of spa, we'll drink brown ale
    And pay the reckoning on the nail;
    No man for debt shall go to jail
    From Garryowen in glory.

    We'll beat the bailiffs out of fun,
    We'll make the mayor and sheriffs run
    We are the boys no man dares dun
    If he regards a whole skin.

    Chorus

    Our hearts so stout have got no fame
    For soon 'tis known from whence we came
    Where'er we go they fear the name
    Of Garryowen in glory.
    Chorus

    So maybe it isn't a yankee song after all...................?? :cool:
     
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  16. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Hey lads maybe we should open a special Civil thread in our military history section and merge all the nice postings in there?
    (only the useful ones of course)
     
  17. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    Quantrill's Missouri Partisans.

    I googled them, oh yeah, nice boys!! :(
     

    Attached Files:

  18. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'll second that. Not a subject that's had too much coverage so far unfortunately.
     
  19. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Hey Bobby A/58, I recieved the book and started it. You're right it is a good read. I had provided a reference to Coppen's Battalion in an earlier post #90, now that I've read a little more on them in the book I think I have a new favorite unit. Gotta' love those rogues!

    Found this tidbit for you Bobby.

    [​IMG]

    Lt. Colonel George A.G. Coppens (seated) with his younger brother Captain Marie Alfred Coppens (standing) of Coppens’ Louisiana Zouaves, the 1st Louisiana Zoauve Battalion, circa March 1861.

    And a few cameos of Jeff Davis' "Pet Wolves" for you other rogues.

    "On June 1, 1861, the Zouaves used the news of their departure to Virginia as a reason to commence drinking. The spirits flowed as soon as they boarded their special train. The men were penned up either in cars or coaches while the officers rode in their own car at the rear of the train. Upon reaching Garland, Alabama, the officers left their car and strolled off into town to get some breakfast. The two musicians left to keep an eye on the men were no match as the Zouaves, who, acting on alcohol inspired thoughts, uncoupled the officers car and stole the train. The officers were stunned to hear their train steam away, and quickly commandeered another engine, and set off down the tracks in pursuit of their wayward men. The next stop on the line was Montgomery, Alabama, where the Zouaves began a drunken spree of looting, robbing, and harassing the civilians in their quest for more alcohol. After about an hour of this chaos, the town leaders and local military commanders called on the 1ST Georgia Regiment to restore order. These unfortunate men were ordered to confront these oddly attired rampaging drunks at bayonet point. Refusing to back down, the Zouaves cursed and threatened the Georgians in several foreign languages. Just as bloodshed seemed inevitable, and unfortunately for the Zouaves, the engine carrying Coppens’ officers arrived on the scene. The officers streamed into the town venting their frustration at having to chase down their own men by physically assaulting the men. With drawn pistols, they charged into the drunken mob, one witness recalled, " the charge of the Light Brigade was surpassed by these irate Creoles." Shoving and cursing some, and pistol whipping others, Coppens’ officers forcibly removed the Zouaves from stores and bars, and formed them on Montgomery’s main street. Sullen, battered, and bloody, the Battalion was marched back to the station and placed onto the train. With their bloodlust up, the Zouaves broke free again in Columbia, South Carolina, and ran wild through the streets until order was once again restored. One Zouave was killed by an officer when he refused a direct order to not enter a town, another died accidentally in unknown circumstances. Still not finished, the Zouaves ignored railroad agents by riding on top of the rocking cars or straddling the couplings between the cars. One was crushed by a low bridge, several others were crushed beneath the train. When they finally arrived in Richmond, a total of nine men had died, the rest were tired, dirty and hungry, and the officers were quite relieved."


    "Upon arrival in Petersburg, Virginia, Coppens’ soldiers showed that while they were one of the wildest units around, they could still excel as soldiers, and were quite proficient in their drill. A civilian noted " the greatest sight I have yet seen in the way of military was a body of about 600 Louisiana Zouaves, uniformed and drilled it was said in the true French Zouaves style...they had been wasting for a month or two in the burning sun of Pensacola, and were as brown as they could well get—browner than I ever saw a white man.. Add to their costume and complexion that they were hard specimens before they left the "crescent city" as their manner indicated and you may perhaps imagine what sort of men they were. In fact they were the most savage looking crowd I ever saw."

    "By housing Jeff Davis’ Pet Wolves on the second floor of Glazbrook’s Warehouse, the local authorities hoped to contain their exploits. The guards at the doors failed to notice as the Zouaves tied their sashes together and slipped out the windows. Roaming the streets like a band of wildcats, they entered saloons, ordered meals and drinks, and then instructed the owner to bill the government. Finally, on June 10, 1861, much to the relief of the citizens of Richmond, the Battalion was ordered to report to General John Bankhead Magruder in Yorktown, Virginia."

    Gotta' love these guys! Sounds like something out of a Hollywood movie. They could also fight like demons. At Fair Oaks, 31 May 1862.

    "Coppens’ Zouaves, now numbering 225 men, were combined with the 196 men of the St. Pauls’ Chasseurs a’ Pied (Foot Rifles) to form what was known as the Louisiana Regiment Of Zouaves and Chasseurs.....The Louisianans lay in a woods, under a heavy fire, watching as a Tennessee brigade’s assault was repelled by the strongly positioned Federals, on a hill fronting the Louisianans. General Richard H. Anderson galloped over to the Zouaves, and calmly rode the length of their line shouting "Remember Butler and New Orleans, and drive them into hell!" With that, the men sprang to their feet, French commands rang out through the woods, and a nearby band struck up "Dixie." Silently the Zouaves crept through the timber to within fifty yards of the nearest Union line. Breaking into a run, the men cried "Picayune Butler," and routed two Pennsylvania regiments with a volley of musket fire from only fifteen yards. The fleeing Yankees then discovered just how few Confederates were attacking, halted, and delivered a perfectly aimed volley, cutting down the first rank of attackers. The Louisianans were being thrashed, but refused to give ground, when more Confederates arrived to force the Union troops away."

    At 2nd Manassas:
    "On the morning of the 29th, General Jackson had his divisions placed along the path of an unfinished railroad cut, on the old Manassas battlefield, awaiting the arrival of Pope. At 10:00 a.m., General Pope began to pound the railroad cut with artillery, followed at 2:00 p.m. by the infantry assault against Jackson’s left. Starke’s Brigade was posted on the far right, held in reserve until called on to recapture a portion of the confederate lines that had been captured. The Louisianans along with Virginians under General Bradley Johnson charged into the Union infantry lines, forcing them back through a Union battery, capturing two guns. After securing one of their prizes, the Louisianans fell back to a reserve position for the night. As dawn broke on the 30th, the sound of skirmishing sounded up and down Jackson’s lines. Jackson’s corps was again bearing the brunt of the attacks. This despite the fact that General Longstreet had arrived during the night with General Lee. As the day wore on Jackson placed his Louisianans in the railroad cut with orders to hold at all costs. By 3:00 p.m. waves of Federal infantry were crashing against the corps’ lines. The railroad cut that protected the Louisianans ran across the top of a steep ridge which the assaulting troops had to scale before reaching the Brigade. The Federal troops were hidden from the sight of the Louisianans until they crested this ridge, only fifty yards from the cut, where they were met by fierce volleys. Although losses were heavy, three assaults were beaten back. Having been seriously engaged all day, the brigade was desperately short on ammunition. Several men of the 9th Louisiana Regiment were sent rearward to find the needed rounds, but the forth assault commenced before they returned. Rounds taken from the dead and wounded were rammed home as the latest attack neared the Louisianans. The attacking Yankees hurled themselves forward, and with the regimental colors of both sides almost touching, the attack was beaten back. Remembering the final orders from General Jackson to "hold this line at all costs," Starke’s Brigade was ordered to make use of the numerous rocks scattered throughout the cut. The reformed Yankee line, sensing that the brigade was about to break, charged forward again. Just as they neared the base of the hill the Union soldiers were pelted with fist sized and larger rocks that came sailing down from the smoke filled air. At about the same time, artillery under General D.H. Hill opened fire from their new positions on the Union right. With the stubborn Louisianans to their front, and enfilade artillery fire on their right, the attack was broken for the last time. General Pope’s line collapsed and General Lee sent Generals Longstreet and Jackson forward, ending the Second Battle of Manassas in much the same manner as the First, with a Federal rout. The Zouaves after gathering their dead and wounded, numbered 17 men."

    [​IMG]

    Photograph of Coppen's battalion at Pensacola.
     
  20. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    I love those Louisiana Zouaves. They are dressed almost exactly like their French alter egos

    [​IMG]
     
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