Discussion in 'Non-World War 2 History' started by majorwoody10, Aug 19, 2007.
In middle age Bysantian empire such ideas also sufaced and are now known as Iconoclasm.
Yeah, but who nowadays has heard of that, let alone still follow it?
As the Sudanese have decided to jail the teacher in the "Teddy Bear" incident. I can't see them getting much help from the UK when their next famine hits.
Perhaps thay should pray to Mohhammed for food?
I saw an interview on the news with some Sudanese government chappie. I can't even remember what point he was making, I think it was that the Sudan would react the same way if anybody insulted the prophets of any other religion, like Jesus for Christians. :roll:
Now, that is actually quite offensive. Can we lock him up?
No, but one is tempted to try. I'm just sure that the government of any Muslim country is going to call out the SWAT teams if someone insults Jesus. :roll:
Maybe Corp was right about the 'peaceful' thing...
Oh, what great ambassadors they are for the religion of peace and love... :roll:
Gosh, you said it; rotten black people... A white country would never do such a thing
so smedge is racist now?
Shes just having a bad day.
This is funny..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0095094509
Right, let's clear this up from the start, that is not what I said at all and your comment implies that I am a narrow minded racist which I resent.
Is there a comparable incident in recent history in a "white country" (whatever that is, I know I don't live in one) where a foreign teacher allowing the children in her care to name a child's toy has led to knife and sword wielding mobs demanding their execution?
In spite of the fact I don't believe there is, this is not what I said in any case, simply that these do not represent good ambassadors or representatives for a religion which is supposed to be of peace and love, or do you believe there are circumstances in which the naming of a cuddly toy is a good enough reason to warrant demanding the death penalty?
You're absolutely right, Simon. It is not racism to decry an act so obviously wrong as to arrest, try, convict and jail someone for allowing second grade children to name a teddy bear Mohammed, which I understand is a commonly used name in the Muslim world. And to then have mobs demanding that she be executed for this "crime". I don't care if the people doing this are purple with green polka dots, what is happening to this poor teacher in Sudan is unjust to a degree that is absolutely astonishing.
All organized religions necessarily become rackets ( It's not god , it's a people thing )
Islam is a particularly bad case , perfectly suited to genetic idiots , recovering heroin addicts and Pakistanis ,
To be Muslim imply the suspension of most critical mental faculties and the humans infected should be considered as poor victims of a virulent disease
ignorance and shallowness are contributing factors
some ethnies are particularly susceptible to its ravages , especially theses with a poor record of achievement
In Muslim societies ,the ones screaming " Allah Akbar "loudest is deemed to be right
Oh, but they keep telling us that black people are peaceful, but I would just like to see that once in a while... Really, when is the last time you saw a predominantly white state do something like this?
[end of offensive comments]
Such comments were not serious, nor were they intended to imply that anybody was narrow minded (except me) but hopefully illustrated to you the dangers in making assumptions about groups, from the actions of individuals...
It is indeed a horribly unjust act which we are discussing, howwever asserting that this debacle is a product of the religion has as much ground as it does as saying it is a product of their skin color... For instance, The offending Sudanese happen to be Muslims... They also happen to be black... We may choose to pin the blame for this matter either their race or their religion (I chose race as an example), depending upon how it suits our arguments, but the real reason for such which jeaguer thankfully identified; is plain stupidity...
It is no coincidence that the moderate Muslims (who I assure you, do exist) also happen to be the more educated ones... Nor is it a coincidence that Al-Quaeda recruits among the poor, the needy, and the naive... Or the Hilter was able to come to power with the support of an unemployed, and uneducated Germany... Stupidity breeds violence...
I think it is often understated that education is the process by which such barbaric laws are eliminated, and possibly through which wars may be avioded... Peace is never achieved through a superficial change of race, class, or religion... There was a time when England had some similarily brutal laws (we even have a topic about it in the members lounge!) but as English society became more moder and more educated, her laws and society became more 'just'...
Stupidity is the problem, and has often been throughout history (although it has often proven easier to blame religion or skin color)... Education is the solution, and exactly what the Sudan needs to rid itself of such laws... :smok:
I will not disagree with you you about stupidity or lack of education, however, in this case the fact that they are black has absolutely no bearing on this case and the protesters are not campaigning on any kind of racial basis. The basis for this case is religion, infact IIRC the only account the prosecution were able to find the individual guilty on was of religious basis so the religion concerned is a factor even if it is not a case of trying to say that all Muslims are bad.
I would point out at this point that you are the only one to have mentioned skin colour in this. Nobody mentioned that they were black, just that they were Muslim and this did not represent a good, tolerant or peaceful outward viewpoint for Muslims as a whole. You mentioned skin colour, AFAIK no-one else did so please don't try to bring that into it unless you consider it an issue.
Bottom line: Their objection is on the grounds of religion so the reasoning for claiming this is the product of religion is entirely just, an insult to Islam is why some people are claiming she should be killed, whether right or wrong, not her skin colour, not her ethnic origin, but the fact that she apparently insulted their religion.
As for Germany, I don't really consider that events 75 years ago really count as "recent history". Even then it was not the matter of a child's toy that promoted the already embedded anti-semitism is Europe.
I will say again, show me a case from a "white country" which equals this, a case where the name of a child's toy is considered reason for demanding execution, even the Kirstalnacht, arguably the greatest single incident in living memory doesn't qualify.
As for "Stupidity is the problem", something I said to my better half a long time ago, always remember Simon's number 1 rule, "People as a whole are stupid, remember this and a lot of things will make sense".
here again , the problem for us in the west is that there is no such thing as interpeting the koran or watering down its text .good muslims are required by edict to accept the text ,exactly as it is written and it is quite clear about what is to be done with those who insult the prophet and those who leave the faith .
Weeellll , I'm not sure
I was listening to a brace of republicans hopefuls having a debate ,one of the you tube question was
" do you believe that the bible is literary true in every word "
... a trap obviously ,
something similar had been sprung on Jesus Himself in the temple
Giulliany had gracefully dropped his pants on the subject of abortion but dissembled somewhat with mention of allegorical and moral truth , an other candidate boldly stepped forward and brushed aside such weak reed , claiming he believed in " the literal truth of every words in the bible "
I would suggest keeping well away from such an enthusiastic zealot
But there obviously is a degree of interpretation in what consitutes an insult to the prophet...
The Teddy bear teacher has been pardoned.
Yes, thank God. But the poor woman should never have been put through this mess in the first place. And she still has to leave Sudan and the students she loves.
The poor woman is a stupid mole ,
Her clucking instinct and arrogant " let's save those poor niggers " attitude got her in a place where she should not have been in the first place
her comments of wanting to stay afterward and help , prove she doesn't even know on which planet she is !
this kind of breezy irresponsibility make me puke ?
it's like those guys who attempt incredible feats such as crossing the Tasman in a bathtub and expect the rescue to arrive when things naturaly go wrong , like if fishermen didn't have enough problems of their own :evil: !