Wanna know about PT-109? Pls look hier...

A few facts about John F. Kennedy's PT-109.

List of men who were on board the PT-109 during the time it as struck and cut in half by a Japanese Destroyer.

CREW:

Lieutenant George "Barney" Ross (manned the forward gun).
Lt (j.g) John F. Kennedy. C.O.
Ensign Leonard Thom. X.O.

Machinist Mate Patrick "Pappy" McMahon.
Torpedoman Raymond "Ray" Starkey.
Machinst Mate William Johnston.
Seaman 1st Class Raymond Albert.
Machinist Mate Gerard E. Zinser.
Torpedoman Andrew Jackson Kirksey. (KIA)
Ordnanceman Edgar Mauer.
Radioman John E. Maguire.
Motor Machinist Mate Harold Marney. (KIA)
Gunners Mate Charles Harris.

KIA==Killed In Action--by that Japanese Destroyer.

Actual message placed on Coconut shell:

"Nauro Isl
Native knows Posit
He can pilot 11 Alive Need
Small boat
Kennedy."

Some interesting stuff--aint it?

 

It was common knowledge that Kennedy was asleep when the destroyer struck them. Anyone else would have been court-martialed. When the boat was discovered recently, the transmission was found to be in Neutral.

 

There were TWO other Officers on board who would have and did take charge and were FULLY qualified to do so as both were PT boat trained Skippers.

Amazing aint it? Even Kennedy had to get some sleep from time-to-time.

 

You're speculating, Carl.
My uncle skippered on PTs in the Med and the Pacific during WW2, and the tale of Kennedy's collossal screw-up is well-known among them.
The story served up to the public was a myth.
Again, the transmission of the PT 109 was found to be in Neutral. The boat was just bobbing around out there with no one paying attention.

 

Not speculating knight--I have met one of the crewmen before at a military show about 15 years ago. I asked him then who was in command of the boat as Kennedy was resting and he said it was Ensign Leonard Thom. Kennedy cannot be blamed for anything.

The story made public was only EMBELLISHED thanks to Hollywoodland.

 

Carl,
The engines were in neutral.
N-E-U-T-R-A-L
What do you think that means?
It means they were screwing off.
No one was on watch and they were just bobbing around out there.
Yeah, Kennedy needed his rest... what a crock.
Anyone else would have been put in jail.

 

Knight--they were in a FLOTILLA with SEVERAL other PT-Boats. They were in a kind of an Arrested Picket line--trying to hear ships. This meant that they WERE supposed to be stationary. They HAD to be in NEUTRAL in order to do their DUTY. PT-Boats made lots of noise.

 

The horizon's 10 miles away.
Do you know how long it takes a destroyer--even traveling at 16 knots--to reach you?
Part of their "duty" was to get in gear and move out of the way.
I hate evrerything about the whole Kennedy Mythology.

 

Look Chas--im no fan of the Kennedys either. I only tell it like ive read or have been told. As I wasnt there at the time--no--I dont know how long it takes a Japanese Destroyer to travel, but I do know that they arent exactly the loudest machines on the planet.

What is you source for this 10 miles thing? ive never heard that?

 

Line-of-sight to the horizon is about 10 miles, that's just the way it is. Even if the destroyer were ripping along at 16 knots, that means it would have been in view for a good 3 minutes.
I've never heard of military craft--on patrol--simply bobbing around with their engines off in the middle of a war zone. That's absolutely preposterous. They'd be drifting all over the place and would have to set an anchor (I do not believe they were anchored--which would have been REALLY stupid.) But, then, Kennedy was always full of bright ideas. He got the notion to put a 75mm gun on the deck of the PT-109. Ridiculous.
My brother is a marine surveyor and wote a cover story for Wooden Boat Magazine on the design and development of PT Boats. He knows much more about the story than I do. Although, I do seem to remember that it was an "Evans" who helped rescue them off the island they swam to. Any relation?

 

Whoever said that they had their engines off? not I. At any rate--their engines do make noise too.

Kennedy put that gun on deck as added firepower--whats so stupid about that? I think having added firepower to help "shoo away" someone attacking you was brilliant.

Sorry to say my friend--but im not related to Mr. Evans of rescue fame. I think he was from Austrailia.

I am friends with an Antique dealer who several years ago had in his possession two Brass Cannons which were manufactured for the express purpose of having on board Yachts and smaller boats.

Back around the turn of the century til about the mid 1930s--there was a lot of Piracy going on in the Florida Keys. So the richer folks among us were able to buy protection for their craft--in the name of Cannon.

These cannon were of a very small caliber size--(the exact size escapes me)these brass caoonon were attached to wooden bases with small wheels--like the cannon of masted ships)) These cannon were breech-loading cannons firing a small caliber shell.

I dont know who made the cannon or exactly when, but I do know that my friend the shop owner had two for sale at about $6,000 each--several years ago. They still work.

 

USS PT-109, an 80-foot ELCO type motor torpedo boat, was placed in service in July 1942 as a unit of Motor Torpedo Boat Squadron FIVE.

She was shipped to the Pacific shortly thereafter and in September 1942 was transferred to Motor Torpedo Boat Squadron TWO for service in the Solomon Islands during the ongoing Guadalcanal Campaign. During the last months of 1942 and the first part of 1943, PT-109 was employed on patrols in the waters adjacent to Guadalcanal, as part of an effort to prevent the Japanese from reinforcing their troops on the island.

After the Japanese evacuated Guadalcanal in February 1943, PT-109 remained in the Solomons. Following the seizure of Rendova Island, near New Georgia, she was based there with other PT boats, charged with interdicting enemy shipping during the fight to capture New Georgia.

While patrolling in Blackett Strait, on the southern side of Kolombangara Island, during the early hours of 2 August 1943, PT-109 was rammed by the Japanese destroyer Amagiri, cutting away the PT boat's starboard side and leaving her completely disabled. As she gradually sank during the day her eleven survivors abandoned ship to swim to an island some miles away. These men, led by their Commanding Officer, Lieutenant (Junior Grade) John F. Kennedy, had many adventures during the next week. With the aid of a Coastwatcher and local residents, PT-109's men were finally returned to the Rendova PT base on 8 August. ~ (from the U.S. Navy archives)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now,let us get a few facts straight.On the night of the demise of the PT-109, Lt.Kennedy and his crew of two officers and ten enlisted men are pulling a night picket station in Blackett Strait off Vanga Vanga. All boats maintain Manuvering Speed. Manuvering Speed on a PT boat (at night) is done by letting your outboard engines idle, muffled and in neutral. Your inboard engine is at slightly above idle and forward engaged and also muffled thru exhaust mufflers to quite the three 12-cylinder Packard engines.

Trying not to make a wake off the bow and disturbing too much seawater from your wheel (prop).Seawater that is disturbed--glows. Phosphorescence is that "glow in the dark" phenomenon exhibited in seawater when agitated by the bow and wheels.The one drawback is that the PT boat is slow to respond to the Helm at these slow speeds because of small rudders on these boats.

It's a moonless night and with the wind to their backs,the crew could have easily missed sight and sounds made from the Jap destroyer, Amagiri. A U.S.Navy crew of 13 behind the enemy lines at night in the middle of the South Pacific are not screwing off waiting to be killed.All aboard are aware as to what they are--Men At War.

The Amagiri does not cut the PT-109 in half, but rather slices off a piece.The Jap destroyer hits the 109 just aft of the forward .50 gun mount and on thru to the stern slicing away the starboard outboard engine.The two crewmen killed were positioned (1) on the "dog-house" and (2) half way in and out of the engine room hatch.The dog-house is the gasoline storage area,amidships on the 109. The remaining hull sinks within 24 hours.

Recently,the where abouts of the PT-109 may have been found on the bottom of the South Pacific. The US Navy would not allow the entire vessel to be uncovered by shifting sands and silt.The US Navy took an educated guess that this was indeed the resting place of the PT-109, by indicating that the 109 carried the same type of torpedo that was found on the wreck.The Navy claims that the wreck found is hallowed ground as a gravesite for the two sailors that died and that the vessel should not be disturbed and because of this,it was never proved that this was actually the remains of the PT-109.This wreck is not a gravesite (there wasn't anyone aboard when she sunk) and the Navy missed the opportunity
to find out for sure if this was indeed the PT-109.

Knight Templar,here are a few corrections for ya.You claim that they had a 75mm cannon on board.It was a 37mm.Big difference.

You claim that the controls were set in neutral. The 109 was never uncovered of sand and silt.Only the torpedo tube was visible above the sand.

You claim that they were bobbing around-adrift. Because of tides and winds,Manuvering Speed has to be maintained to stay in position,relative to the flotilla.

I am no big fan of the Kennedys,but a hero is a hero.JFK was awarded the Navy & Marine Corps Medal for saving the lives of his crew and for the life of his Motor Mac,Pappy. JFK's father was not well liked in Washington because of his neutral stand at the beginning of WW2 and Gen.MacArthur had a real dislike for the father and wanted to court-martial Jack Kennedy.MacArthur,now pissed off because of the no court-martial,was not in favor of any award for Kennedy and this was to directly effect JFK's MOH directive to a lessor award.

Now you know the rest of the story...

 

Well I think that puts that one to bed....Informative post...good one.

 

Indeed yes, welcome aboard these Forums, BatterySteele. Thanks for a well-composed posting which seems, to me at least, to make good sense.

 

Welcome Battery,

Cool pic in your profile....yours??

 

MY occupation at that time minus one pay-grade.I was a PR 2/c.I gave myself an extra stripe for OJT...

 

Ah a Navy veteran, excellent ! Welcome aboard sir......

~E

 

Hello Battery, I am located in The Netherlands, so I have no idea what that means. Will look it up on Google. Welcome again!