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Western Allies partition Poland, Germany is granted "Polish Corridor"

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Eastern Front & Balka' started by MontE, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. MontE

    MontE Member

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    (I have used the search function and have not found this discussion, please help me out if we have had it before and Dirrect me to the Discussion.)

    "What if?"

    The Western Nations abandoned Poland in 1939 and conceed to Hitler the Polish Corridor or even further, the "peace Conference" rules that Danzig and Eastern Prussia return to 1914 boundrys.

    Poland becomes a "rump" state. land-locked and guarentied by all nations of the conference at the table.

    Hitler having all "legitamate" territorial ambitions repudiating the Versailles treaty met, no longer has a leg to stand on politicaly in regards to further acquisistions.

    Would that have been the end of Germany Expansion in Europe?
    Italy, initialy being a reluctant partner... would Mussolini follow Hitler in Future conquests? Especially after being made the sucssesful "Peace Maker" once again?
    How would this play out in the USSR and how would it effect German - Russian relations in the years to come?
    IF, German - Russian relations went sour... and Germany respected the status quo in Western Europe and Poland, how would the West react to a possible conflict between the USSR and Germany?

    (I hope this meets all critiria)
     
  2. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    It pretty much does, MontE, you just need to add your ideas of what would happen.
     
  3. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    This is an interesting one Monte.

    I would day that had the Germans and Russians gone to war the Western Europeans would have left the Germans to it, seeing that they are fitting communisin which the majority of Europe was against, they may even assist with weapons and supplies, and if it had erupted into a European war then Britain may even lend a hand Militarily against the Russians, which could mean the end of the Soviet Union and a partitioned one at that.

    What about poland though? Would these initial battles between the Russians and Germans be conducted in the 'corridor' or would they 'spill' into the polish area's to attempt to get into a flanking position? Would Poland allow this from either side? Germany did take Danzig, and the Russians are commies, or would she just avod conflict all together, but would that even be possible?

    The Italians would probably support the Germans in the war against the Russians, for some territoral gains, but they did want much of north africa, which put them against the British empire.

    Interesting:)
     
  4. MontE

    MontE Member

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    So what you are saying here is that war between Germany and the USSR was inevitable? But war between Germany and the Western Powers was avoidable?

    The West's fear of communisim was so great that they would join Germany (a military dictatorship) in a war against the Russians? Or just Britain?

    As for France... would they assist the Germans? French policy has always held a strong Russia as a counter weight against Germany. How would they react to the destruction of the USSR by Germany and Britain?

    I think it is needless to say that any conflict between Germany and the USSR in the East would result in the destruction of Poland. As a neutral or an Ally of either side Poland would be a battle ground.

    Im not so sure Italy would get involved with the conflict. Sure Italy was politicaly opposed to Russia but what do they have to gain by taking on the USSR? Russia has no dealings in North africa and England and France keep the Italians in check there.
     
  5. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    No. I only meant that if the Germans and Russians went to war I don't think that 'Western' europe would interfere, as along as poland was not attacked, whihc would probably be inevitable.

    Not join as such, but support that struggle, one quote comes to mind 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'.

    Probably violently, becuase of the situation and 'past' between the French and Germans.


    You are probably very right on with that one.



    But since the Germans have gone to war with the Russians and with the British possibily supporting the Germans, the Italians would not have a foot to stand on in Africa without German support, so since the Russians are are opened for invasion it is possible that the Italians might eye something off there.:)
     
  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Hahahaha! Have you forgotten the Hitler speech in which he promised that after the Sudeten he had no more territorial claims anywhere?

    What about his comment when Chamberlain intervened, when he said he wished that the last thing he needed was another doo-gooder spoling his game?

    Hitler lied through his teeth, even if he was granted the Danzig Corridor he would have immediately invented another casus belli, like "The Poles are farting in my general direction" or any other :)

    No, in that phase he was after total domination but in gradual nibbles in order to avoid the big confrontation with the Entente Cordiale.
     
  7. MontE

    MontE Member

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    LOL, now thats funny! What I was trying to say in regards to "legitamate" claims... Despite whatever Hitler did or said, Germany had legitamate territorial claims due to the unfair versailles treaty. Danzig was a Germany city with 96% ethnic Germans! The polish control of Danzzig and the corridor cut East Prussia off from the main state and was bound to cause trouble at some point??
     
  8. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Even granting that, do you believe Hitler would keep it at that and take it as his last claim? Did he historically?
     
  9. Jaeger

    Jaeger Ace

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    I think there was no stopping herr Hitler. They gave him an inch and he kept on coming. The time was right for the Germans. The turnover rate for French government was incredible (Skipper remember the number) and the British had diplomacy down as their salvation. Too bad that they had nothing to back it up with.

    And let me congratulate you on the what if, as it doesn't imply that with a mere ten pound sack of potatoes delivered at Novogorod on time wold have won the war for the Germans, and there is no trace of the Tiger tank.
     
  10. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    Hold up jaeger there is still time, this thread is still in tis infancy:D
     
  11. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    Ok I'll start it jaeger, hehe, what if the the Germans were granted the 'polish corridor, while they had tiger tanks, oh and what if Britian stayed out of the war for good.:) lol
     
  12. Jaeger

    Jaeger Ace

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    Well tomcat as chance would have it, the 6th Earl of Rosshire decided to break free from the Union and declared war on Germany. Sending his Ghillie a certain Alasdair Powrie to Germany there was no debate on the result

    :hitlersnipe:
     
  13. knightdepaix

    knightdepaix Member

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    Based on the above discussion, the Western Allies care less about a German Soviet war. If so, a land-locked rump state like the Napoleonic Duchy of Warsaw ?

    Then in 1941, Germany would use the pretext of unifying pro-West peoples in Ukraine to invade the SU ?
     
  14. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Russia was a Communist Dictatorship with a large military as well, so if its the choice between Communist Dictatorship and German Dictatorship, I'm sure they would not prevent and maybe support the Crusade against Communism with Materiel, volunteer brigades, etc.
     
  15. knightdepaix

    knightdepaix Member

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    GunSlinger86, my last post meant the Western Allies giving up the Polish Corridor and returning Poland to a landlocked state would still be unlikely to convince Germany not to invade the SU. Thanks for your input but please not deviate my ideas to other.
     
  16. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I'm saying when and if they do, The Western Allies, would likely do anything to prevent such a move and might even support it with materiel, volunteer brigades, etc. Like The Spanish Civil War. the Western Powers stayed neutral, but did nothing to help the then left-leaning Communist-leaning government in place and let the Fascists rip them apart.
     
  17. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Sometimes I wonder if the Allied really tried hard enough to make a pact with the USSR....

    Why did not the French and the British succeed in making a pact with Stalin.Probably many reasons but in the final meters something like this might be decisive...

    From Dmitri VologonovĀ“s Stalin 1989

    In August 1939 the British and the French military mission icluded names like Drax, barnett, Heywood, Doumenc, Valin and Vuillaume.

    Admiral Drax was recently made Naval Adjutant to the King and held the Tsarist Order of St Stanislav.Doumenc would become member of french Supreme Defence in November 1939.

    Stalin saw that apart from a few generals , most of the delegates were relatively junior officers. He could not believe the western allied really meant to negotiate at all.

    ..............

    http://www.austinchr...ooks_vsbr2.html ( sorry not functioning anymore...)

    Before Poland was invaded, Chamberlain tried to do the sensible thing, and come to terms with Stalin. But he entrusted this crucial task to a non-entity with the Wodehousian name of Admiral Reginald Aylmer Ranfurly Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax. The Soviets apparently found Drax's Order of Bath particularly humorous, as they were under the impression that it referred to a washtub rather than the resort town. While Drax took a slow steamer to Leningrad, and then pottered about Moscow, doing a spot of touring, Germany was sending out its own feelers. Finally, Ribbentrop arrived, and on August 25, Drax left the USSR. Two days before, Stalin had signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, which officially allied the USSR and Germany. On September 1, Hitler, moving an army considerably faster than Admiral Drax had moved his diplomatic entourage, invaded Poland, thus bringing an inglorious end to the Blandings castle world of the Draxes.
     
  18. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The Western Delegation was given no power to agree to or sign any type of agreement, just discuss.
     

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