What B-17 position would you want

Not in 1943/early 1944 it wouldn't!

I've been reading a lot recently about 1st and 2nd Schweinfurt and other raids when the '12 o'clock high' frontal attacks were at their height. The only thing between the bombardier & navigator and a hail of 20mm shells was that plexiglass nose.....

 

I really think no-one even in late 43 and early 44 wanted to be in a B-17/B-24 really not with these things flying from all directions at you and firing those pesky Br 21cm mortars . . ....... no thanks



frontal attacks were at the zenith in the winter of 43-44 with JG 1 and JG 11 forming the verted wedge............Yuk, too many company front attacks by Fw 190A-8's. I can well imagine what the bomber crews were praying when they saw the long lines of the enemy coming at them "Lord where are our little friends?"

then from summer of 44 staffel attacks from the rear with the tail gunner suffering the brunt and the only real defense of the "heavies"

 

More excellent pictures ! Your hot today !

When at look at the 110's my first thought is " I bet all that junk underneath really takes away from their airspeed ". But in the 1942-44 time frame all you had to do is be faster than the bombers. Still a clean Me-110 would be 50mph + faster than these planes.

 

interesting too that the II./ZG 1 Bf 110G-2 in the foreground +BP was later shot down in action later in 1944

another threat: this time from II./JG 3, a pilot and his wart

 

[threadjacker]
Erich, how effective were those 'flying Nebelwerfers'? What was the effective range and hit rate?
[/threadjacker]

 

???????? ya know I really am not sure I have heard so many specs on range. usually beyond a thousand yards but in a single form almost worthless. Yes one would destroy a B-17 if given the right spot on the bomber but the idea was to fir enmasse from at least 3 Bf 110's or Me 410's at a time and if it could be done without interference from US escorts

if anything they were to create chaos so the twin engines could get closer to use their 2cm and 3cm cannons. with such confusion going on around the bomber crews with these things, it is no wonder many crewmen ID'd the Luftwaffe a/c as Do 217's and He 111's, many not knowing the truth.

E ~

 

The important thing about range of the 21-cm rockets was that they could be fired from a position which was beyond the range of the .50 Brownings.

Being unguided and ballistically unstable, the rockets were relatively ineffective. But - it was the old theory of throwing enough mud at the wall and some is sure to stick. When one made contact with a bomber the result was inevitably decisive.

As with the later R4M rockets as fitted to the Me262, the 21-cm rockets were cheap, unsophisticated, potentially highly destructive - and undoubtedly had a morale effect, too.

 

Yes, this is in line with what I remember reading. In practice these slow an innacurate weapons would register precious few impacts, but the sight of those big, slow and smoky projectiles arching in a high parabola coming at your formation would probably cause disruption and loss of cohesion. A proximity fuse would have helped, though, the 21cm rocket would have room for it but then it would no longer be a cheap weapon.

 

From what I could find in a book & the web, for what it's worth.

Planes with these were referred to as "Pulk Zerstorer".

The Werfer Granate, Wfr. Gr. 21 Mortar/Rocket.
velocity...1030 fps
range......3280 ft
verticle deviation?...25 ft
horizontal (same?)...130 ft
warhead (for the 21)...80 lbs

The Wfr. Gr. 28/32 (and the 21) were tried for anti tank, but proved too inaccurate. The bigger (than 21) were too bulky (wind drag) to pan out for air-air duty.

As Erich posted the Me 110 carried 4, the Me 109 & FW 190 carried 2.

 

Per those figures it certainly was a lousy weapon. Good for infantry bombardment (on the ground), but in the air it was only able to scare a formation. Consider the target was moving at an average 180mph, giving about 270 fps, so you would have to fire from quite close just to be sure you'd be within maximum range let alone effective.

 

but the simple truth was this.........the US bomber crews were scared of those things, no matter from what type of a/c it was delivered, and even more so when in March 45 onward JG 7 started delivering R4M's in salvos, 12 from each wing. As you can see from one jet staffel firing that is alot of ordnance.