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What if: British plan to invade Ireland in 1940

Discussion in 'Alternate History' started by lordroel, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    Churchill had many plans during World War II, including a preventive war with the Soviet Union after the fall of Nazi Germany-as did every other leader, but while we now about the German plan to invade Ireland during World War II in Operation Green, it seems that Churchill also had made a plan to invade Ireland as in 1940, he was urged to invade Ireland by Northern Ireland Prime Minister Lord Craigavon, AKA James Craig, a rock ribbed unionist, who believed that Eamon De Valera, the Irish prime minister, had fallen under Nazi sway and a crossborder invasion was needed to remove him and thus he urged Churchill to send British troops composed chiefly of Scottish and Welsh divisions to install a military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin who would secure the valuable naval bases along the Irish coastline.

    Craigavon also told Churchill that distributing propaganda leaflets in Gaelic and English should be used to persuade the Irish that the Scottish and Welsh divisions were there to defend them. Churchill did not do much at first with this invasion idea but later prepared detailed plans for an invasion of southern Ireland.

    Field Marshal Montgomery stated in his memoirs: “I was told to prepare plans for the seizure of Cork and Queenstown in southern Ireland so the harbors could be used as naval bases.”

    Any invasion of Ireland by Scottish and Welsh divisions would be over quickly with them being able to take control over the country with out much resistance, but for the IRA this would an absolute gift who would have launched waves after wave of guerrilla attacks. “Occupying Ireland would have been an extremely messy and costly undertaking.”

    Also attempting to “camouflage” a British invasion by using Scottish or Welsh divisions would have backfired as “Many of the Black and Tans, the British auxiliaries sent to suppress Irish independence, were Scots and they had an appalling reputation”.

    In the end this plan was never implemented, Ireland stayed neutral throughout the war, but Irish prime minister De Valera did offend London by offering his condolences to the German ambassador in Dublin on the death of Hitler.
     
  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    This has been discussed here I think. If not here over on the axis history board. Often in conjunction with the German plan to invade Ireland.
     
  3. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    Sorry my fault, but at least the British could have invaded Ireland, the Germans where a little bit to far away.
     
  4. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    No a problem it's an interesting issue that isn't very well known. You might want to search around for the other threads and either post in them or if there's a major point of divergence go ahead and add it here. I don't think I've seen any new post in those threads in several years so the material will be new to a lot of people as well. Mentioned the older posts as much to let you see what has been discussed and maybe pick up a couple of points.
     
  5. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The British invade Ireland, because it worked so well the first time? How many divisions would it take to keep them pacified?

    .
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I think the plan was not to do so unless the Germans had already invaded, so there might be some support. De Valera had pretty much declined British help in case of a German invasion. He might have changed his mind if it actually occurred. The Irish did allow a number of British activities that weren't completely compatible with their neutral stance.
     
  7. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    To many i guess, what they need in Ireland, they cannot use in other places, that might be a win-win scanario for the Germans.

    Wonder, can the Germans drop of a submarine ore two with supplies ore have the Luftwaffe create Fliegerführer Irland.
     
  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I'm pretty sure the plan was to invade only if it looked like Ireland was about to become a German base whether by joining the axis or by invasion from them. I don't see any way the Irish would have joined with the Axis powers so that left an invasion as the most likely thing to initiate the British plan.
     
  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Have we ever been pacified?
     
  10. Jaap Vermeer MDE

    Jaap Vermeer MDE Active Member

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    This article tell the story
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    The British needed to have a contingency plan in case the Germans violated Irish neutrality as they had other neutral countries.

    The British retained access to ports in the Free state - the "Treaty Ports." The British wanted these because of their importance in the u boat campaign in WW1. With hindsight it seems ludicrous that the Chamberlain government traded them away as part of a settlement for a trade war with the Ireland - in 1938!
    Churchill spoke against the deal. Treaty Ports (Ireland) - Wikipedia He had a personal historic reason.

    .(I think this is form Hansard)

    In the event the ports were less significant as the German occupation of France precluded the use of ports in the south west of Britain for transatlantic shipping.

    In practice the Free State's neutrality was skewed in favour of Britain. Several thousand citizens fought in Britain's armed services and tens of thousands of irish civilians worked in Britain;s war economy.

    There was an Irish terror campaign in Britain in 1939-40. S-Plan - Wikipedia

    I donlt think there was much enthusiasm in Britain for reoccupying the south.
     
  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Weren't there some radar or Huff Duff stations in the republic as well?

    My uncle's officers club apparently secured much of their booze from the republic by way of "training" flights to Northern Ireland and some perhaps shady deals across the border.
     
  13. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    According to wikipedia, the Irish agreed to allow a radar station to combat the latest form of U boat in 1945.

    The wikipedia entry for Irish Neutrality has some interesting information Irish neutrality during World War II - Wikipedia
     
  14. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    One of the reasons for bringing Italian PoWs to Britain was the decline in agricultural labourers from the Republic. It got steadily worse as the war continued.
    Not sure if the decline was political or just an unwillingness to enter a war zone.
     
  15. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    I think there was more and better paid work available in construction.

    Agricultural pay was low. The British economy was based on free trade in imported food and domestic agricultural wages were low. The average wage for male agricultural workers was 38s per week - which was better than an infantryman at 14s, The "Land Army" of female conscripts/volunteers were paid 17s before deductions for board and lodging - which caused problems

    The allied wartime construction projects were on a comparable scale to the German Atlantic wall and V sites, but the pay was better in McAlpines Fusiliers than in the Organisation Todt....

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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  16. toki2

    toki2 Active Member

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    Conscription in Great Britain did not apply to Ulster as they did not want any aggravation on their doorstep. Having to impose this would have used their limited resources. Many pro Republicans did however volunteer despite them being vilified in their communities. It is only recently that the Republic has recognised their sacrifice against the Nazi regime.
     
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