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What if D-Day had failed?

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by Colin, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Hello everyone. I haven't been here for over half a year because i've been very busy. I was wondering though if we had a contingency plan if the initial invasion on D-Day had failed. I also wanted to know if President Roosevelt was prepared to respond to an utter failure. Thanks.
     
  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I don´t think I ever heard of plans for invasion if the Normandy invasion failed. Doesn´t mean there weren´t any though.

    To make such a huge operation I guess it´d take a year or so to prepare for a new one and Normandy would be out of question if Overlord failed.

    I recall reading that the weather was so poor that the first time the operation was meant to happen on 5th June it was cancelled due to the weather, and as the full moon was needed for the operation, the 6th was about the last chance to make it or try again in one month´s time, i.e. in early July. So Ike sorta went for " now or never" decision..

    I think as well the 4th was the first day possible for invasion but they did not even consider it as the weather was that bad.
     
  3. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    No, the Allies did not have an alternative plan if ?overlord' failed. When Eisenhower gave green light to his troops on June 6th, after cancelling the operation on the 5th, he actually had prepared two speeches, one if the invasion succeeded (which is the one we know) and one if it failed.

    'Overlord' had taken more than two years of planning. I don't know what a big failure would have provoked.
     
  4. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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    I actuall;y think i saw Eisenhower's failure letter-it was omethign about addressing personally the Free World, and teh families of those lost. Very awakening...and thought provoking...
     
  5. Juerg

    Juerg Member

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    Well if D-Day had failed I guess the Germans could have used to stopp the Red Army of forcing with that poweer in direction of Berlin. There is a german writer Konrad von Keusgen who says that not the allied had mangaed the D-Day but ther Germans. And if you look closer what mistakes have occured to drive the allied back into the sea it could be that the german generlas wanted the allies land. He even says that he has about 100 evidences for that theory and that he was thinking of writing a book about it. He was then told by some government office to wait with such a explosiv book untill the last of this timearea has been past away. He wrote a great book about the invasion. But for me Germany was on the way to loose the war even if D-Day had failed it only would have took the allies longer to force Germany to surrender.
     
  6. Schmidt

    Schmidt Member

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    By 'failed' how? Was the very first assault all repelled or did they land, only for the forward formations to be cut off by Armoured forces (Assuming Rommel's plan was used). The allies had Operation Anvil, later renamed Dragoon (as Churchill felt he was being dragooned into it) but that came two months late. Allied force will no doubt move into Italy and go for the slow battle up there, with some americans going to the pacific.

    Germans were try moving troops towards the east, yet assuming the Soviets launched Bagration on 22nd of June that gives the Germans little time to prepare.

    Who knows? With there attention back to the East then maybe they could sniff out Bagration and commit action before it is taken, yet I doubt there was nothing they could do stop the Red tide.

    Eventually all of Germany will taken by the Red army, and maybe France, Denmark, although this will make the Soviets dangerous overstretched, it will have severe consquences on the cold war.

    Spliting hairs, D-day did fail, it was suspose to capture Caen on the first day and move a certain distance in land, they hardly gained half of what was needed. :cool:
     
  7. Munken

    Munken Member

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    If D-Day had failed i think that the allies would concentrate more on Italy and get to Germany that way.
     
  8. Vermillion

    Vermillion Member

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    Firstly, the major impact of a failed D-Day would have been political. Churchill is ecorded as saying he did not think his government would survive being kicked off the continent a third fourth time in the same war. Certainly the impact on the British people would have been huge.

    In terms of military losses, yes they wouldhave been significant, and there were very few landing craft that were not in use in the invasion, so forces would have to be built up again. But I am sure that within a year another (probably less ambitious) invasion would have been attempted, possibly through southern France, a later Anvil/Dragoon, or into the Low countries. Churchill was considereing re-invading Norway as well. That second invasion would likely have been almost all American, possibly and Canadadian, with a small British contingent.

    However: Its not like there were a lot of battle ready divisions that could be transfered east in France, and furthermore, the threat of Invasion, while delayed, was still present. So yes, several divisions would surely have been trnsferred east, but not enough to make any kind of difference at all in July 1944. The Russians were on a rampage at that point, and 8-10 extra divisions from France would have made no difference whatsoever.

    In the aftermath of a failed Normandy, significant allied troops would have been redirected to Italy to resume the offensive there, as the Allies would have a lot of troops sitting about, and be anxious to get back 'into the game' so to speak.

    That being said, coming in July 1944, after a string of defeats, the morale effect on Germany of this victory would have been tremendous, which in and of itself might have had some beneficial consequences for them. There would likely NOT have been the July 1944 bomb plot, which means Hitler would likely not decend into quite as much paranoia in the final months, and may still have been capable of making coherent decisions and listening to his military advisors.
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Info bit:

    Paradoxically, the greatest danger for the operation Overlord came right in the region of the Orne, where Allied victory seemed to be firmer. The German 21st armored Division, located near Caen and with 127 Panzers , had originally received the order to free the zone to the left of the river. German Colonel Oppeln, commander of the 22nd armored regiment of that division, probably because of an initiative of his, re-read the received order by interpreting it under the light of the new tactical situation that he could see with his own eyes. Rather than protecting Caen and what remained in the hands of the Germans, he crossed the river Orne on the only city bridge still standing after the bombardments of the morning and attacked in direction of Bièville. The Canadian troops were surprised by the presence of so many panzers and they preferred to halt their own advance and to fortify while waiting for reinforcements. Only a pair of kilometers more to West, the 192nd regiment of the Panzergranadieres of the 21st Armored Division completed an in-depth movement that allowed to reach the sea near Luc-sur-Mer, separating in two part the British invasion troops. At 6.00 PM, the German troops, exhausted by the enormous effort done during the afternoon halted and remained on defense. In the zone, both factions were too in open order on the territory to protect their own back areas and they patiently waited for the reinforcements promised by their own superiors.

    http://www.geocities.com/iturks/html/normandy4.html

    as well...

    At 5.50 AM the ships of the US Navy and the Royal Navy that had to give the tactical support to the infantry arrived in the zone of the 7 nautical miles from the targets.

    Everything seemed to proceed in the most absolute calm, when suddenly 3 E-Boats (or S - Boat) arrived. They succeeded in sinking the unlucky Norwegian destroyer Svenney. It was the only Allied naval damage of the first hours of invasion. Though this attack was almost meaningless, it shows as the Kriegsmarine knew about the fleet of invasion and it tried a resistance. The insufficiency of the means and the power of the Allied air bombardments on the harbors of Le Havre and Cherbourg allowed as answer only that miserable, but brave, action.
     
  10. Colin

    Colin Member

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    I just thought that if we had failed to take Normandy, that it would be a huge blow to our forces. I understand that we tricked the Germans into thinking that we were going to land at Pas de Calaise, but what if they had not taken the bait and instead heavily reinforced the Normandy coast. Then our troops would have been in a heap of trouble. Just a thought.
     
  11. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    I'm thinking of the movie Fatherland, and how in the prologue they spoke of Churchill losing a vote of no confidence in the Commons, followed by FDR losing the 1944 elections. Do you think that was possible, or even likely, with an Overlord failure?
     

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