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What if Germany and Russia were allies???

Discussion in 'What If - Mediterranean & North Africa' started by Mustang, Oct 6, 2002.

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  1. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    Mustang " Sorry my mistake. By the end of the war it was still probably the best Navy in Europe, but by that time the Japanese Navy and American Navy would've been better"

    What Japanese Navy?, by 1945 you Americans had rather unsportingly sunk it all :D
    By the end of WW2, the worlds largest fleets were

    1) USA
    2) Royal Navy
    3) Royal Canadian Navy
    No, the last one is not a mistake :D
     
  2. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    Just for fun [​IMG] I have listed below, a rough guide to the sizes of the major navies when they entered WW2 [​IMG]

    Strength of the RN in Sept 1939
    15 Capital ships
    7 Aircraft Carriers
    15 Heavy Cruisers
    46 Light Cruisers
    181 Destroyers
    59 Submarines
    54 Escorts

    Strength of the US Navy December 1941 ( The US had started to build up its forces from the opening of the war in Europe)
    16 Battleships
    7 Aircraft Carriers
    18 Heavy Cruisers
    19 Light Cruisers
    6 Anti-Aircraft Cruisers
    171 Destroyers
    114 Submarines

    Strength of the Japanese Navy December 1941
    10 Battleships
    8 Aircraft Carriers
    18 Heavy Cruisers
    20 Light Cruisers
    108 destroyers
    I have no figure for Submarines :(

    Strength of the German Navy 1939
    2 old Battleships
    2 Battlecruisers
    3 Armoured Cruisers
    3 Heavy Cruisers
    22 Destroyers
    20 torpedo boats/small Destroyers
    59 Submarines

    Strength of the Italian Navy june 1940
    6 Battleships
    7 Heavy Cruisers
    14 Light Cruisers
    1 Coastal Defense Ship
    122 Destroyers/Torpedo Boats
    119 Submarines
     
  3. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    Nice stats Redcoat. I had completely forgotten about the Canadian Navy. :rolleyes: *bump*
    The Canadian did have a pretty large Navy, but I'm curious to know which planes they flew. Didn't they mostly fly American Carrier based planes? :confused:
     
  4. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    America did NOT win Midway based on luck! They won it with intelligence, bravely and wisely applied!!! :mad:
     
  5. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    Mustang "The Canadian did have a pretty large Navy, but I'm curious to know which planes they flew. Didn't they mostly fly American Carrier based planes?"

    :confused: Err, they didn`t have any Aircraft Carriers as such, Although two Escort Carriers which remained in the RN were manned by Canadian crews [​IMG] . The HMS Nabob and HMS Puncher, of which only HMS Nabob saw any active service, taking part in an attack on Tirpitz, but she was torpedoed by U-334 on the 22 August 44 and although she made it back to port under her own steam, she was judged not worth repairing and paid off :(
    On the other question, the two types of aircraft used by the Nabob were indeed American, Wildcat and Avenger [​IMG]
     
  6. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up Redcoat. [​IMG] I feel much better now. ;) I was pretty sure that the Canadians flew American planes, but wasn't 100% sure.
     
  7. Andreas Seidel

    Andreas Seidel Member

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    IMHO America won Midway with OUTRAGEOUS luck. Not merely luck.
     
  8. vonManstein39

    vonManstein39 Member

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    The Americans had good luck at Midway, but it wasn't the deciding factor. The Japanese had bad luck at Midway, but that wasn't the deciding factor either. The Americans used the right tactics (partly by accident) and the Japanese used the wrong tactics (not by accident).

    Victory in war goes to the side that makes the fewer gross mistakes.
     
  9. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    I can't see it happening. We were not allies in 1939-1941. Except for Poland noone of both nation was assisted by the other on its military campaigns. Was the USSR helped by Germany to invade Finland? No. Was Germany helped by the USSR to invade Western Europe, Scandinavia and Great Britain? No.

    Actually, they keep thinking that they did it all by themselves... [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. De Vlaamse Leeuw

    De Vlaamse Leeuw Member

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    Von Ribbentrop was having talks with Molotov to allow Russia to join the Triple alliance (Germany-Italy-Japan).

    There were a lot of conditions which Hitler didn't wanted to fulfill. E.g.: withdrawel from Eastern Europe, no help to the Finish, ...

    What if Hitler aggreed with these terms, in exchange to help to defeat the capatilists in Great Brittain and America.
     
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