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what if Hitler listened to Manstein

Discussion in 'What If - Mediterranean & North Africa' started by Ironcross, Oct 16, 2006.

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  1. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Actually in the openning months of Barbarrosa, the Germans caught the Russians completely by surprise and capture a little over 3 million.
    Not many ever saw the end of the war, due to the fact that the Russians were treated only slighty better then Jews. As a result millions died of Starvation in captivity.
     
  2. Ironcross

    Ironcross Dishonorably Discharged

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    sloniksp
    The only reason i said that was because you said
    "as long as one Russian was alive he/she would fight till the end"

    [ 19. October 2006, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Ironcross ]
     
  3. Machine Gun Nest 1985.

    Machine Gun Nest 1985. Member

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    Another thing Germany did have a alot of its manpower in the occupied territories to keep the peace and not always on the frontline.The more territories that Germany capture the more garrison are needed so this must of played a small part in the lack of reserves in the German army.
     
  4. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    And I meant it. The Russian people would have never stopped fighting until the invader had left.

    oh and congratulations on you Aviator. That's from Schindlers List right?
     
  5. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    actually Germany had a huge reserves. Remeber it did take a lot of soldiers to police a conquered country.... If someone missbehaved they were lined up against the wall and shot. They kept order through piece.

    Most of the conquered countries had the pleasure of dealing with the Gestapo and other police units, while the soldiers were on the front line.
    In fact bootcamp for the Germans was the western front ( policing countries in some cases ) and then they were shipped off to the Ester Front
     
  6. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    sorry meant to say it did NOT take a lot of soldiers to police a conquered country.......If someone miss behaved they were lined up against the wall and shot. They kept order through FEAR.
     
  7. Machine Gun Nest 1985.

    Machine Gun Nest 1985. Member

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    Hmmm i agree with you sloniksp on that one.Im kinda alittle rusty on this topic.

    question

    ok changing the topic just a little

    but

    Did Germany have any Significant forces in France in the years 1942-1943.?
     
  8. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    No, the most and the best of what Germany had to offer was on the eastern front. Especially at the end of 42' when the war for the Germans began to slip away.

    The forces that Germany had in France were mostly a police force.

    I also read somewhere that at the time of Normandy, the atlantic wall was only garrisoned by 67,000 men. Of which 20% were kids from 16 to 17 years old. Another portion was consisted off shell shocked troops from the easter front and only a handfull of well trained Germans, with no air support or tanks.

    please let me know if the 67,000 figure is not accurate

    thanks
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The Atlantic wall might have been manned with what it was but the again at Calais there was the whole of 15th Army, and in Normandy the 21st panzer and also the Hitlerjugend just around the corner, the latter of which entered battle on 7th June if I recall correctly. So quite close.
     
  10. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    So was the article I read accurate??
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I don´t know if you can for example say the 15th Army was not part of the Atlantic wall or the troops in Norway. So that´s why I say 67,000 is way too low.
     
  12. Jaeger

    Jaeger Ace

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    Nearly 300,000 men in Norway alone. A 'destiny' area by Hitler's own words. After the commando raids in Norway, Hitler decided that it was one of the places that the destiny of the war would pivot.
     
  13. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

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    "Additionally, the Wehrmacht should have been fully aware of the differences in rail gauge in Russia as well as differences in capability of locomotives etc. These are things the Germans could have planned for but didn't."

    Not true, they began regauging early on, & by summer 43 had all rail lines in occupied Russia regauged.
    http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html
    http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=9

    The line running from the port city of Liepaja to Saldus to Selpils to Krustpils remained wide gauge until the spring of 1942. By the summer of 1942, all of the other primary wide gauge lines in Byelorussia and the Ukraine were also converted to standard gauge.


    "If the Germans added some degree of mechanization, say mounting the unit on a train with rail based equipment like cranes and such, these units would have been even more effective. As it was they were almost totally unmechanized.
    This would have prevented many of the supply bottlenecks as well as a far better means of repair and replacement of equipment through better access to rear area depots."

    This article on German horse usage is of interest.

    http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/germanhorse/
     
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