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What if Japan destroyed the 5 aircraft carriers at Pearl H?

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by P5, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. P5

    P5 Dishonorably Discharged

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    What if Japan succeded in destroying the 5 aircraft carriers it was hoping to hit in Pearl Harbor?
     
  2. Grabbers

    Grabbers New Member

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    Then the US builds 10 aircraft carriers, most riki-tic...
     
  3. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    In the long run no difference, only Japan would have a huge head start.
    No America CV's means off course no Battle for the Coral Sea thus Japan takes New Guinea.
    No Doolitlle Raid as well, so no boost for American moral. No Doolittle means no battle of Midway. Japan keeps her carriers.

    So, instead of going in the offensive in mid 1942 the Americans would go offensive in 1943 (probably end of 1943) when they have enough carriers. And since Japan still has all his carriers, we would get a big battle at the beginning of the offensive, a sort of Midway but probably fought in the Solomons.

    The war propably ends in 1946 or even 1947.
     
  4. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

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    Yep,Japan loose his power on sea when he loose his carrier,and it loose it by US planes.So that would be nice headstart,but i wonder,how far will Japs pushe then,and they maybe use Yamato? They wasted best ship made in WWII,and biggest battleship ewer made,just think his coastal shelling what can do...
     
  5. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Bugger all really, what's coastal shelling maybe 25 miles inland really going to achieve against somewhere like continental USA, Australia or China.
     
  6. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    Yep, costal shelling is only good for small islands.
     
  7. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

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    And what about hawai?And otther US naval bases in pacifik and important potrs..It was not possible for Japan 2 invade USA,but with their 4-5 carriers+Yamato,and otther destroyers ,ect it would be mighty force who can control pacifik for some thime.But truth is that USA coul not invade Japan homeland allso,they estimated human loss in 1-2 mil ppl.
     
  8. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    The atomic bomb still would've been dropped. War ends around same time.
     
  9. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    But that wasn't the Japanese plan. They intended to grab a set area of the Pacific, fortify it, let America bleed herself white on the defences, then graciously accept a cease-fire.

    Only the first two parts of that went according to plan, and even then not exactly.
     
  10. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    In order to get a B-29 to drop it, you need at least the island Saipan to let it take of (unless you choose for a one way bomrun)
    Since America would have to rebuilt it's fleet, it would take longer before they can get a hold on Saipan.
     
  11. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Or you can just fly from China, which was a possibility taken very seriously by the US during the war. Many bombing raids were launched from China, and the Japanese even started an offensive into the Chinese mainland (previously they had concentrated more on the coastal areas) to capture any airfields within range of Japan.

    Or you could always cut out McArthur's efforts in the Phillipeans, which (in the grander scheme of the war) achieved little beyond the division of resources, and thus concentrate all forces on getting a base within range of the Japanese mainland.
     
  12. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    The main thing would be an even longer and bloodier war :x

    Another important part would be more technological advances made during those war years....so who knows maybe we (as in vacation) could have gone to the moon by now :lol:
     
  13. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    "so who knows maybe we (as in vacation) could have gone to the moon by now"
    Or maybe we'd have to.
     
  14. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    I would like to point out that it would have been impossible to have destroyed all of America's carriers at Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, simply because four of them were in the Atlantic at the time, IIRC (YORKTOWN, HORNET, WASP, RANGER). And the USN had seven carriers, not five. :wink:
     
  15. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    It's all in the details.

    Thus, leaving only Enterpise, Lex(ington) and Saratoga.
    However, Lex and Saratoga were the biggest carrier.
     
  16. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    Maybe........but the Big E was bigger and better in capacity (bigger punch but smaller package)!
     
  17. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Conversions are always (economically) worse than purpose built vessels.
    Some numbers:

    Japan:
    Akagi and Kaga: 35000-40000 tons, max aircraft around 90 but practically closer to 70.
    Soryu and Hiryu: around 16000-17000 tons, max aircrafts around 70. Both Soryu and Hiryu were faster than Akagi and Kaga.

    USA:
    Saratoga and Lexington: 35000-38000 tons, max aircraft 90.
    Yorktowns: 19000 tons and max aircraft 100. Speed was similar.

    Britain:
    Furious, Glorious and Courageous: 22000 tons, max aircraft 36-48.
    Ark Royal: 22000 tons, max aircraft around 70. Similar speed.

    You need twice as large converted ship to have similar air group than purpose built ship. Roughly.
     
  18. P5

    P5 Dishonorably Discharged

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    The Americans would have found some way to strike some how.
     
  19. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    I would tend to agree with '89...
    I think the Americans needed to give the general public a morale boost, in part to restore confidence after the debacle that was Pearl Harbor.
    I recall the AVG was active in China, and perhaps they would have moved more agressively in the CBI-Theatre. Were there B-25s present in-theatre with the AVG, or Nationalist Chinese forces at this time?
    In any case, the priority would be to give the American public a victory of sorts, and issue humiliating retribution on the Japanese homeland... which WAS quite successful even if the damage inflicted was of no strategic value.

    Tim
     

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