Anzac,you have still not given one proof for your claim that Moscow was saved by general mud (claim,ironically supported by ...Magenheimer ),all you have is a questionable statement by Tooze that on 8 october,the front of AGC was transformed in a quagmire ,nothing about the weather of the following days .(the description by Kershaw also is irrelevant,because, it is not dated :it happened when? It lasted how long ?) On the Russian strength:you only have the letter of Zhukow (of which date in october?) about the 90000 men,and nothing about the evolution of the following days On the German strength :you have NOTHING , you also are forgetting the distance from Briansk to Moscow :380 km. About Magenheimer :the fact that he is supporting the these of a Soviet preventive attack (on which I disagree), is irrelevant for the discussion if Moscow was saved by general mud . Mud or no mud,the Germans were advancing to Moscow;it took them 5 weeks to cover a distance of 38O km . It's on you to prove that they could do this much quicker without the mud,that they could capture without the mud . Last point :to say that the Germans ended at Moscow with the Rasputitza AND the minus 35 C of the blizzards , is of course nonsens :it is the Rasputitza,OR the minus 35 C,both is impossible . And about the minus 35C :I like to have some proof. On the AHF (Early and Harsh Winter ? thread),are available (for the Kalinin Front =NW of Moscow)the official temperatures for october(starting on 21 october),november and december):there is nothing about minus 35 .The source is giving : Before 4 november,temperature was above zero with rains,snow would melt down Strong freezing started on 11 november .