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Who Shot 'J-Johnnie' Down ?

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by Martin Bull, Mar 2, 2003.

  1. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    The almost complete remains of Lancaster JB-659, 'OF:J-Johnnie' from 97 Squadron, Bourn, Cambs have been excavated near Amsterdam and have been brought to Wickenby Museum in Lincolnshire for display as a memorial.

    Two of the crew were buried in 1944, the remainder were found with the wreckage and their remains have been reunited with those of their comrades.Tragically, the falling bomber hit a farmhouse, killing the Dutch farmer, his wife and four of their children.

    The wreckage filled thirty large crates : the total cost of excavating, packing and flying it to the the UK was in the region of £120,000. The entire operation was paid for for by the Royal Netherlands Air Force and thereby the people of Holland.

    http://www.a1.nl/nfla/JB659.html

    ( If your Dutch is a little 'rusty', click on the Wickenby link at the bottom )

    'J-Johnnie' was on the way back from Berlin on the night of 30th January, 1944 and fell to the guns of a night-fighter.

    Does anyone have any idea which one ?

    [ 02. March 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Martin :

    there were a total of 42 claims made by German night fighters this night of 30/31 January 1944.

    Is there a certain time reported of the attacks ? this may help as it is most probably a Bf 110G-4 of III. or IV./NJG 1.

    Oblt Augenstein shot down two Lancasters, the first at 21.49 and the second at 22.00.
    's at 22.10 and 22.25
    Oblt Schnaufer claimed 1 Lanc at 22.15 10 km West of Amsterdam
    Lt Krupinski of IV./NJG 1 shot down a Lanc at 22.20 hours.

    E
     
  3. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Erich,

    According to Chorley, 'J-Johnnie' was shot down around 22:10 hrs....
     
  4. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    A few months ago there was some press attention to this....Not to the nightfighter part but the crash and deaths on the ground. Will see if I can dig something up....Might be partt of my upcoming series: AMsterdam in WW2....

    Got already some Then and Now items! ;) :D

    A gestapo building was "rocketed" by Typhoons litterally around the corner from where I live...
    Anyway more later...
     
  5. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    I see my post did not come out in it's entirety....

    the 22.10 hours claim was made by Ofw. Vinke of IV./NJG 1 claiming 1 Lanc and then another one at 22.25 hours.

    E
     
  6. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Just checked the map and 'Haarlemmerleide' where the Lanc' came down is absolutely due west of Amsterdam.

    I wonder if it could have been the Schnaufer claim ?
     
  7. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    That could be it but IV./NJG 1 was operating in that area anyway, so it may have been Vinke or another ?

    E
     
  8. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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  9. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    The book on Schnaufer by Peter Hinchliffe basically is just a sentance, stating that the RAF crew were proably congratulating themselves as they were enroute home when they were caught by Schnaufer and his crew......this being his 44th victory.

    E
     
  10. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Euh? Is that book out already? This is the book a lot of people are waiting for, right? And not due for quite some time? Or am I :confused: with another book?
     
  11. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Stevin :

    You are thinking of Peter's new book in process about Helmut Lent !

    E ;)
     
  12. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    :oops:

    That's the one!

    S.
     
  13. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Interesting that Ofw Heinz Vinke, with 54 victories, had less than a month to live.

    He was shot down off Dunkirk on February 26th, 1944 - a 'shared kill' for F/Lt Raymond 'Cheval' Lallemant ( a Belgian ) flying a 198 Squadron Typhoon.
     
  14. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    yes Heinz Vinke holder of the RK-EL was shot down 15km north west of Dunkirk. His crew Uffz. Dunger and Uffz. Etwa MIA. Bf 110G-4 Werk # 740136, coded G9+KY. An Ocean recon mission......how bloody stupid !

    E
     
  15. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Ocean recon ??

    That sounds like an extraordinary waste of a highly effective crew.... :confused:
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Yes what was he doing flying during the day. "Hi RAF come shoot me down please !" About as stupid as NJG 2 ace Heinz Struning. Guess I'll leap-frog from airfield to airfield, and the crew was shot down, all killed during the day by a Spitfire in 1945. He was one of the leading ace personalities and NJG 2 felt his loss gravely.

    Totally idiotic !

    E
     
  17. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I've just checked the Schnaufer book, too - 'his' Lancaster that night crashed into the sea so it does look as though 'J-Johnnie' did fall to Vinke's guns.

    Interestingly, the director of the Wickenby Museum has invited me up there next Friday to view the museum and the wreckage of this aircraft.( [​IMG] )
     
  18. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Lucky you....will be strange though, to look at wreckage of a plane you know so much about now.
     
  19. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Well, I took a day off work and went to Wickenby Airfield.

    The wreckage of the Lancaster is extraordinary to see ( there is so much of it ! ) and makes one realise the violence with which such aircraft crashed. It makes a good contrast to the complete Lancasters at Coningsby and East Kirkby, both just a few minutes' drive away.

    The people running the museum were very interested to hear of our discussion here - they had not yet researched the identity of the Nachtjagd pilot.

    PS : This is probably the friendliest 'museum' I've ever visited - they allowed me to have a free flight to see the airfield from the air and presented me with an original piece of 'window' found there. If anyone is thinking of visiting Lincolnshire this year - be sure to go to Wickenby ! :cool: :cool:
     
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  20. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Martin, if you and the museum need a simple bio on Vinke and his listing of victories I maybe able to help. Let me know!
     

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