Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Panzerknacker, May 13, 2002.
Well-lets here everyone's reasoning-was it the Brits, Reds, Yanks, (hehehe)Frainch,....
Economically, it has to have been the United States, they were powerful on economic terms before the war, but after it they were by far the number one economy in the world. The Brits and French were the big losers (on the Allied side), because they lost most of their overseas possesions as a direct result of WW2 and their economies were totally shattered by years of warfare. Additionally the British lost their ranking as the #1 maritime power to the US. The Soviet Union kind of stands out, because it gained a lot in military prestige and power, but this was more than offset by the huge losses both in manpower and in economic factors. Additionally Stalins policies immediately after the war isolated them even further.
The Germans and Japanese both lost a lot of prestige and respect on the international scene, but as a direct result of the Marshall plan, they were to benefit greatly in economic matters. Although both had lost millions and been entirely devastated by their own ambitiousness, they recovered within a decade and their economies rose to be the #2 and #3 in the world.
Not to be sarcastic in my reply but, the only winner of ww2 really was The Grim Reaper. All the killing and all the destruction
The country which gave the most (by what it had) and had the most lost was the USSR in terms of everything.
Sorry Billy Bones, naturally the Canadians won.
Carl, you're right in a way, the man with the scythe and black hood had his best harvest in those six years.
Yan, obviously the Soviet Union contributed immensely buth in human and in material terms, but you don't measure success by someone's losses, only the gains count.
We who are free from opression, murder and slavery are the winners.
OK, then who 'gained' more than the USSR?
I've seen your postings on the "OnWar" forums, and know how they tend to leand towards being pro-soviet, so I'm interested to see what exactly you think they did gain by being one of the victors of WWII.
I see them becoming one of two major world superpowers from immediately post-WWII until the early 1990s. From then it would seem that the great experiment that was Communism had failed, and most of what Soviet Russia gained after WWII dissappeared.
Now, I'm not trying to "diss" the Soviets or downplay their role in history, or to say that the Americans faired so much better, but I am interested to see what people believe the Soviets, or any other country did "win" after the war.
Germany and Japan gained the most, they had their country rebuilt etc. Japan gained the most though, if it wasn't for the war she wouldn't be the electronics giant she is today.
Britan and France's empires were not lost because of World War II, it simply speeded up the process. Britan wasn't gaining much from the empire and would have granted independence to her posessions anyway.
[ 14 May 2002, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Madcap7 ]
In my opinion what was "Gained" doesn't matter when answering the question of "who won WWII?" so I simply asked my question to see what the previous author thought 'gains' actually meant. If he had answered like "madcap" then he doesn't understand what he himself is speaking of since Japan and Germany didn't win anything in WWII.
[ 14 May 2002, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Yan ]
Also in a way I have to agree with Madcap, about Germany and Japan being rebuilt BUT, that was mainly because of a "western" or Westernized" buffer zone between us and them--if you know what I mean
No, we did not win. Five million deaths, a country in ashes, our pride injured (again),our soil invaded and conquested...
But we won the economic aid. One of the countries which won the most does not longer exist...
But the defeated ones are inmensely rich now and are conquesting the world economically. We are even wiping American asses in some things... (Sorry if I hurted somebody).
Who won? That's the mistery.
Miro: You are wrong in saying that the US Economy was strong before the war. America, during the 1920's and 1930's was in the Great Depressions. Goverment run programs like the CCC, AAA, and WPA put to work the unemployed, improving/constructing thousands of miles of roads, school houses, etc. The WPA employed more people in New York City then the War Department.
Most of these were founded in 1933 - 1935. Congress, for instance, gave FDR $5Billion which he used to establish the WPA under Harry Hopkins.
Programs like the WPA returned $11 Billion into the US Economy.
World War II was the real reason the Great Depression ended. Most consumer goods were changed over to produce War Materials, and the unemployed became factory workers, or joined the Armed Forces. Thats why women had to work - because the unemployment level was at 0, and they needed more workers.
America, in a sense was a victor of WWII because it turned its economy around and became one of the Worlds most Powerful countries. On the downside, FDR broke everything he had said the people. The Isolantist policy was broken, the 'avoidance of joining a European War' was broken.
THE UNITED STATES,ENGLAND,NEWZELAND,CANADA, THE AUSSIES AND ALL THE OTHER FREE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD DID NOT WANT WAR, AND NEIGHTER DID F.D.R.,ARE YOU FORGETTING THAT THE JAPANESE INVADED MANCHOREIA AND CHINIA...THE GERMANS INVADED POLAND...THE ITALIANS INVADED ETHEOPIA...IT WASENT ABOUT MONEY...OR JOBS !.....IT WAS ABOUT THE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM.
Mussolini, I'm sorry if I didn't phrase my response correctly. economically the US in the 1930's was not strong but had a lot of potential, a vast (often unemployed though) and decently educated workforce, plentiful raw materials, adequate infrastructure. It was not all in shambles before the war started, but the advent of WW2 put the US in a unique situation. It could employ everybody, either through manning the war factories or through mobilization, it's economic wealth during the war was appreciated by most Allied nations (even though the Soviets didn't particularly like US tanks and airplanes, they greatly appreciated the trucks and jeeps and some of the other essentials, like boots, uniforms, food, raw materials.
On top of that, the US was not invaded and the US homeland didn't suffer the devastation and deprivation caused by a foreign army, or the strict rationing that Britain had during most of the war (there was rationing, too, but it did'nt include as much as in the UK).
So one could say that most economies weakened during the war, the US economy was in a constant upward movement, which finally brought it to the poition that it still (though barely) holds today.
Well yes, but actually I meant the collective we
Walt: I cant agree with you about the fight for freedom. For all the countries, it would be a contradiction (other then for Germany, who had no colonial holdings.) The US, for instance controlled the Phillipines, the UK had Egypt and other African/Pacific holdings, as did the Dutch, the French, the Italians and the Japanese. Saying that you are fighting for freedom while you have Colonial Possesions is a contradiction.
From the way i see it, World War II brought Europe into more equal economic terms (Germany rose from the ashes of WWI, leveling the competition with the UK and France, as the treaties of WWII were not nearly as harsh as those of WWI). New countries were formed in its aftermath, the US had risen greatly, Japanese Imperialism (an old age thing if anything) came to an end, as did Fascism and Nazism in Italy and Germany, respectively. It was a war against Nazism/Fascism and dictatorship -a war that ended suppresion. Russia is a different matter all together.
WELL I AGREE...AND I DONT. YOU HAVE A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE COLOANIAL POWER THING, BUT I THINK OF THAT AS A CARRYOVER FROM THE EIGHTEENTH AND NINETHEENTH CENTRY'S. IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE WORLD WOULD EVOLVE ENOUGH TO GRANT INDEPENDANCE TO THE NATIONS IN QUESTION, BUT WW2 SPEEDED THAT PROCESS.SEEMS LIKE MOST OF THE WORLD DID BEIFIT IN THE LONG RUN FROM THE WAR, EXCEPT THE ONES WHO ARE NOW COMMUNIST....I SAID BEFOR, I WOULD NOT MENTION MY TERRIBLE SPELLING, BUT I FEEL I SHOULD APOLIGIZE AGAIN.IT MUST BE A HASSLE TRYING TO FIGGURE OUT WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY...AH HECK!
Loud and clear Walt