Wolfy argued against a Liberal today

I'm getting the impression that strong left wing thought is essentially an ideological state of mind constrained by a set of rules rather than being an ideology that adopts an efficient utilitarian way of thinking (for moderates, libertarians, etc.) as the primary goal. There's this egalitarian fantasy they have.

Do you feel this to be the case?

 

I sure do.

For anyone with a logical turn of mind, arguing with a Liberal/Leftist is simply an exercise in frustration. It's almost an Alice in Wonderland allegory.

 

Never mind...I decided to edit out what I originally posted. There was no point in presenting an alternate viewpoint.

 

Yes... Imagine how I feel...

 

I rest my case.

 

Yeah, damn those crazy leftists and liberals suggesting that maybe people aren't all fundamentally greedy, moneygrabbing, selfish scum!

The fundamental principle of all leftist thought is that ultimately all of human history has been a progression towards a better way of living. Add to that the suggestion that ultimately those people who have nothing but their labour to sell should be able to help determine the conditions under which they sell it and that they shouldn't simply be manipulated by a system controlled entirely by those with money.

But hey, for the folks out there who are convinced that the status quo is the best we can ever achieve, you have my pity.

 

Yes, the Left and far Left are delusional. They have adopted a set of values that frequently conflict with reality and when they do the Leftist will typically do one of three things in response:

Type 1: Get seriously angry and emotional, then begin hurling gratitutious insults, viterol and, may in extreme cases get physically violent.

Type 2: Change the argument. Let's say you are arguing about health care. You slam the Lefty with facts and a very well thought out rational argument. The Lefty suddenly says something like "Well doctors make too much money!" That is, the argument is now not about health care it is about health care provider wages and salaries.

Type 3: This one is rare. The Lefty simply stomps off in a rage and won't talk to you anymore.

As I have on another board as my tag line:

If it wasn't for hypocrisy, the Left would have no argument at all.

The entire spectrum of Leftist positions are hypocritical and unsupportable by anything beyond the most minimal amount of factual evidence.

 

i totally agree

 

I see Economics to be a science that is permanently linked to social and political policy. Without empirical evidence, tangible/meaningful statistics, and a conception of scale, there is often little meaningful discussion. One can exchange glum generalizations for a prolonged period but often all meaningless without measurable results.

I exchanged letters with a left of center Investment strategist (who holds a doctorate in political economy from an ivy league university) a few months ago and he told me that the economics profession is completely skewed to the conservative side as it simply too difficult to find academic evidence to prove many left wing social policy and doctrines. There is almost no ultra-leftwing economist because he would probably not be able to obtain a degree due to the general paucity of favorable data. Academia and think tanks are composed mainly of left of center to right wing economists. Economists that work in the private sector are either right of center or right wing.

The main practical business publications are generally right of center: Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, the Economist, etc.

In the past year, I have tried to read up on economics and expand my knowledge base. As of right now, I simply do not find most left wing analysis (of which I have read) to be very credible but this may be the fault of the writers.

Allegations of elitism/welfare state aside for conservative/liberal economic doctrines, I think both try to achieve a better society through different means.

However, the left way of thinking seems to be attempt to achieve national prosperity more by a methodical way and with an unshakable set of values. This rigidity and inflexibility seems to be undeserving of the textbook adjective of the word "liberal".

 

One particularly bad trait of the Left is that they have no appreciation for or sense of history. Instead, they seemingly believe if you personally have not experianced something your view on it is irrelevant. From a Leftist perspective, this board would be largely irrelevant as few here actually lived through WW 2. The Leftist would believe that just having studied and read on the history of that war would not make you truly knowledgable about it.

 

1. happens a lot. So far, every left wing forum I've tried to explore is chock full of hate mongering, scapegoating and mostly terrible posts. I hope to find a quality one some day.