Wrong place to order a Black & Tan! Input needed from some real Irishmen please.

Hey guys, I need some insight and maybe some ideas about an incident that occurred a couple of weeks ago. A good friend of mine, his wife and about a dozen other people from here in Louisiana took a 10 day vacation to Ireland (the Republic of, not Northern Ireland). They rented a small castle, toured the area and had an all round great time. They had such a good time that they want to go back at some point in the future. Here's what happened. My friend, retired state police like me but from New Orleans, on their first night out on the town went into a real Irish pub. I say real since we have one here in downtown Baton Rouge that's not really authentic, but it's about as close as we can get. They sat down and ordered drinks. My buddy ordered up a Black & Tan. You'dve thought that he put on an artificial toothbrush mustache and goose-stepped into a Synagogue singing "Raise the Banner". The bartender looked him up and down and muttered something, then stormed off. Moments later the bartender came back with the owner of the pub and fingered my friend. The owner walked up to him and asked him why did he order a Black & Tan. He replied that he liked them, and what was the problem. The owner then went on to explain to him who the Black and Tans were, and that drink is an Englishmen's drink and was considered to be in poor form to order such a drink in a pub in Ireland. My buddy apologized, not knowing the protocol for such things and asked if he could have a Guinness draft instead. Everybody's happy now. The night went on without further incident.

What I don't understand is that the bartender's reaction to the order. It was quite obvious from my buddy's accent that he was not an Englishman or from around those parts either and obviously not familiar with local customs and practices. Once my buddy returned and told me about what happened, I re-read up on the Black and Tans and could understand why that drink isn't popular in the Republic of Ireland. Maybe in Northern Ireland he could've gotten away with it, but not where he was that night.

The reason for his preference for the Black &Tan (drink, not the nasty lot the drink is named for) is because we occasionally hold choir practice at Happy's (happy hour, 4-8 M-F, 2 for 1 draft beer!) the only Irish pub in downtown Baton Rouge. There's an English pub on the other side of town called "The Londoner". Never been there, but it's a place for British ex-pats and local hipster douches to hang out. The Australian/New Zealander's hang out is in New Orleans BTW. Not sure where the Canadian go. Anyway when we're at Happy's, we usually order the B & Ts, but slightly modified. Guinness is still used for the black part of course, but we substitute a local micro-brew from the Tin Roof Brewery, the Tin Roof Blonde. So it's called a Black & Blonde. Nice drink. All the girls that work there wear plaid short skirts, knee high white socks, and tight fitting little bitty white collared shirts. They do well with the tips obviously. So that's where we got turned onto the modified Black & Tan, and the beginning of my buddy's near-international incident.

Comments, ideas and theories are welcomed to the discussion.

 

Order a Half and half next time.

 

Actually, the Irish only hear about Black and Tans from American tourists. It's something invented in the states by people who don't know any better and not something any Irishman would drink. Ever. I went through a similar episode in Dingle many years ago. They don't see the point of wasting a good porter by dumping lager in it, or wasting a good lager by dumping in porter.

It doesn't matter whether you call it a black and tan or an 'aff n 'aff, they'll still think you're stupid. They'll serve it if you want, but that word muttered under their breath that you can't quite make out is "idjit."

 

It was an honest mistake and I'm glad your buddy didn't press the issue. My brother-in-law loves a half and half as well but stuck to Guinness throughout his trip The Island. He fortunately had a talk with my father around the historical significance of many Irish customs in regards to the English, the Black & Tan was among the lessons.

 

'An Englishman's drink'...? I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone order or even refer to such a drink in an English pub.

It's also worth noting that 'Irish Pubs' are largely tourist-influenced and often found nowehere near Ireland which has a more historic culture of bars or 'spirit grocers'.

 

Porter and lager are two different drinks and to mix them is silly enough, but then calling it a "Black and Tan" is just adding insult to injury.

I suspect you'll get the same puzzled and possibly hostile reaction if you walk into a bar in France and ask them to cut your bordeaux with white wine, then calling it a "Hitler Cocktail."

 

That's akin to going into a bar in Milledgeville Georgia and ordering a Sherman...

and asking for the carpetbagger discount.

http://seemydrink.com/drinks/view/the-sherman

 

Good thing your friend didn't order an "Irish Car Bomb"
[Dives for cover]

 

Frankly - the worst poured pints of Guiness or other stouts I've had have been in Ireland - the absolute worst was three doors along from the gate of the Guiness brewery in Dublin!!! A lot of people I know cut it with a dash of lime, or blackcurrant, to make it half-drinkable...

 

Appreciate the input gents. I now understand the ordering of a Black & Tan brings up ugly, but understandable memories of the past, but like I mentioned before, what puzzled me most about the deal was the bartender's over the top reaction to my friend's order when it was clearly apparent that he was not English or Irish, and obviously from out of town and not up on all things considered rude and crude in the area. So, next time a half and half would be a much better way to place the order I see. I'll tell him tomorrow night at choir practice at Happy's Irish Pub! He'll have to study up on local customs and protocols as well to avoid future misunderstandings. I later asked him if he ate any good corned beef, cabbage and Irish potatoes while there, and he replied no. He only ordered off the menu and didn't ask anymore questions.

So, a Black & Tan or a Half & Half is a tourist drink? I think it's pretty good, but I must admit that I do prefer our Black & Blonde more. But if anyone was buying me a Black & Tan or any other drink I'd drink it thankfully and with enthusiasm since turning down a bought drink is crass and might lead to sore feelings or worse later.

After the bartender's feathers got unruffled, my friend went to drinking Guinness while roaming the town in the wee hours. He said he sampled Jameson as well, and enjoyed the tour of the brewery, and of course the free samples they offered.

Is there really a drink called a "Sherman" in Georgia? And a "Hitler Cocktail" in France? I wonder if there's a consumable "Molotov Cocktail" in Finland. Back in the 80s I used to partake in a shot called a "Kamakaze" once in awhile. Good thing there were no WW2 Navy PTO vets around when I ordered it then. There used to be a whiskey around here called the "Rebel Yell", but I think that label has fell along the wayside as this PC business that is crippling and polarizing the country started making headway. Crown Royal is a pretty good drink too, but there's a similarly tasting but much more inexpensive imitator called Canadian Hunter on the market. I've heard that drink called "poor man's Crown" before. Guess I better not mention that one when skiing in Banff. This drinking around the world stuff can get confusing.

 

I had the same experience as your friends 30 years ago in Dingle. First I had to explain what a Black and Tan was, then I had to endure the condescending comments of a barman who couldn't believe anyone would ruin a beer like that.

The other really awful faux pas you can do in a real Irish pub, at least in small towns, is to dare to sit in the snug or even enter the snug. Most country pubs will have a small area at one end of the bar that's partitioned off. That's called the snug, and it's for ladies that don't want to get chatted up by oafs. Oafs like me. So, while you may nod and smile at a lady down the bar in the snug, you'd better not approach her unless she leaves the snug (which is kind of an invitation). If you do enter the snug, like I did, you'll find yourself the center of some very unpleasant attention from everyone around.

 

Rebel Yell whiskey is still with us... http://rebelyellbourbon.com/

And so is Virginia Gentleman Bourbon, from a distillery whose management once included Robert E Lee IV...

 

He was clearly the village idiot, on the same moronic level as the cretins who occasionally tell me the local Irish theme pub (run by an Orangeman! ) is a "catholic" pub and Guinness is a "Fenian" drink.
Ignore them and rise above it.

 

Or any Scottish one, for that matter.

 

In Scottish pubs, those were for the punters who smoked. They disappeared in the '80s due to demand for open-plan pubs...from the same people who then complained about smoke that had never been a problem beforehand.

 

Basically, he was just rude. Regardless of whatever chip you're carrying on your shoulder, the rules of hospitality are that you don't make your guests feel awkward or embarrassed.

 

The Black and Tan is nothing but a marketing thing. It has nothing to do with politics. The English won't drink it because :

1) they drink real beer , not donkey pee.

2) They have never heard of it.


I put those drinks in the same bag as Desperado or Corona.

 

When I was in Ireland and wanted something a bit lighter than a Guiness I ordered a Smithwicks. In fact ended up drinking a fair number of them. We can get them here now as well but not for 20+ years after I was there.

Looking up the history of OP drink I found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tan

The Irish Car Bomb is a much more recent and American beverage (there's a link on the wiki site above).

 

As recommendations go, that's a positive one then!

Suprisingly, I can get it less than two miles from where I sit, although I've never tried it...yet. It seems to have turned into an "export"-only brand, the Lidl chain of discount supermarkets here stock it!

Smithwicks disappeared for a while, the brewery (in Dundalk IIRC) was bought out by Bass Ireland and rebuilt; Bass incidently just happened to have its OWN very similar ( and preferable) product in Bass Ale... But I notice it's back in a limited way - like the Rebel Yell, Bass Ireland may have opted to make it an "export" brand.

There's been a lot of rejigging in the liquor market around the world over the last 20 years, triggered by the Diageo takeover of Guiness and making it a worldwde product; or rather....a product manufactured worldwide The largest Guniess Brewey outside Ireland is actually in Lagos, Nigeria! Where Diageo market it as a local product....

SO much so that when the Republic of Ireland attracted a lot of Nigerian immigrants in the late 1990s, they were all suprised to see THEIR Guiness for sale in IRISH pubs!