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WW1: Leipzig War Crimes Trials

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Kai-Petri, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Leipzig War Crimes Trials - Wikipedia

    The Leipzig War Crimes Trials were a series of trials held in 1921 to try alleged German war criminals of the First World War before the German Reichsgericht (Supreme Court) in Leipzig, as part of the penalties imposed on the German government under the Treaty of Versailles. Only twelve individuals were brought to trial (with mixed results), and the proceedings were widely regarded at the time as a failure.

    Even though the sentenced were based on those given for the offenses under German military law, outside of the Weimar Republic, the trials were seen as a travesty of justice because of the small number of cases tried and the perceived leniency of the judges in passing sentence.

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    Maybe this was one of the reasons some of the German High command in WW2 ( Göring especially ) thought they would walk away like a free man to build a new Germany.
     
  2. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Interesting to see the "only following orders" defence. Always thought that was a WW2 thing.
     
  3. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    I'm not sure Goring really thought he would get away with it...more worried about the effect his weight would have on his neck...Perhaps taking a pill was his way of getting away with it...Weinstein esque...
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Cannot be sure what was the true cause but from being fatty during the war years he lost quite alot of weight in prison towards the Nuremberg trials. Perhaps they got less calories during meal times?

    [​IMG]

    and then Nuremberg trials:

    [​IMG]
     
    CAC likes this.
  5. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    Not only were war trials in Germany post 1918 not pursued with any vigour but an number of those who would have appeared were allowed to escape from prison and little effort made to apprehend them subsequently
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    As mentioned. Sorta mentioned trials never took place. The nazi top men thought they would get away the same way.
     
  7. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    No I don't think so. WW1 ended with a negotiated peace, no matter how one sided, with a German government still in power. WW2 ended with total surrender with the Allies in power. That's why Himmler was trying desperately to negotiate some sort of separate peace with the Western Allies. Goring expected to be remembered as some sort of national martyr. "One day every German household will have a little statue of me"
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Why were the trials sorta cancelled after the Versailles treaty? The German High Command was not courted like in ww2 . Germany was blamed to be the guilty one to start the war but no-one was hanged or sent to prison for life?
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I thought the war ended because the nation had no food, the army was not able to fight the war. They managed to move almost a million men as Ostfront war ended but the army started looting after the initial phase as they were hungry etc. Ludendorff was the one saying the war was lost. Some say he changed his mind but what was he thinking??
     
  10. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    The German high command called for an armistice to save the German army from destruction (see it's statement to the Reichstag) . Germany did not perform a total surrender and a German government of some form remained in power throughout.
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Germany surrendered because Ludendofff said they could not win.

    Germany was ordered to pay big debts for starting the war.

    In case please explain these.

    Germany had to surrender not negotiate. That is why Hitlet got to power.
     
  12. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    No Germany requested an armistice because the German high command feared its army would be destroyed. The terms offered by the Allies were very strict but accepted. A second armistice had to be requested in December 1918 when the first expired. It was much stricter than the first but also had to be accepted. An armistice is an agreement to halt fighting it is not a surrender much less an end of a war. Despite the somewhat loose use of the term Germany did not surrender in WW1. The peace came with the Versailles Treaty. This was negotiated between the Allies and presented to the German government on a take it or leave it basis. Read Margaret Macmillan's excellent book The Peace Makers. As Britain was still maintaining a very tight food blockade Germany had little choice but to accept.
    Germany had to pay reparations not debts. In reality she never paid that much and Britain and France had abandoned reparations before Hitler came to power but he kept banging on about them as it was a good nationalist theme.
     
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I do not understand you ARWR. If Ludendorf said they could not win and should give up was there another possibility? That was it. Only giving up whatever The rules were.if he had any chances to continue he would have done that. Getting a million men from ostfront gave him one or two ace cards up his sleeve. What I have read once the offensive started the men turned into a mob robbing food and not following military objects. And Ludendorf said they could not win. The Germman government did not decide it was the Kaiser. If your military high command says it is all over you might listen to them. Instead like Hitler.
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    If it all was armistice why Germany
    Ordered to pay so much, its Navy destroyed, its army to low levels ( Weymar ), navy cut. Hitler got so much positive attention by Rhineland occupation by army etc that. Happened due to the mistake the Allied thought they made in Versalles with the treaty that was too harsh. Because they gave in because they thought they had been too rough with terms . In the west they had been rough even though The French army occupied for a momentthe Ruhr area for coal in early 20's.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  15. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    But they did not surrender. The reparations and most of the reductions were part of the Versailles Treaty which followed the armistice. Germany signed the treaty because the spectre of starvation and communist insurrections stalked the streets and the British blockade had to the lifted. Do not be fooled into the Hitler interpretation of the history
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I am not into Hitler lies. It was Ludendorff who said the war was lost. And thus Germany gave up.
     
  17. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    If you cannot give me the German top commander's say he will continue or win we are wasting time. If Ike in Ww2 had said he was not winning ever or could make a stop only would be equal to Ludendorff.the latter said he was losing the war with time and continuing was more of killing men without meaning and achieving the goalwas not possible. Even with the million more men from the won Ostfront.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  18. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Fine. Quote me Ludendorff's say from the book or elsewhere and I agree. Should not be a bigger problem. The Kaiser was the man to decide in the end, and he moved abroad after the peace, later on funnily joined Hitler et co in the early 20's.
     

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