WWII U. S. Army Uniform AA Shoulder Patch ID

Good morning everyone!

I'm hoping someone will be able to confirm/identify the "Tab" (?) above the round AA part of the shoulder patch shown in the attached photo. I'm putting together a shadowbox of a friend's dad's WWII Army medals, etc. I would really love to find an authentic "Tab" patch (as shown in photo). I have located one on eBay, but the gentleman says it is for the 17th Airborne AA Battalion. It truly looks just like the one in my attached photo, but I only have records of my friend's dad having been part of the 647th and 708th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Machine Gun Batteries (1944 - 1945). Also, the eBay gentleman wants $200 for this patch (round AA patch AND Airborne tab). OUCH! Does that sound right????

Any clarification anyone could give me as to whether you think the "Tab" above the AA in the attached pic is actually "Airborne" would be hugely appreciated. I'm pretty new at learning about the intricacies of the various meanings of medals, patches, etc. So, please forgive me if my question is elementary. Oh, and too . . . if anyone is able to identify what the green/gold lapel pin is in the picture, I would appreciate know what its significance is as well.

Also, if anyone knows of another place where I might find/purchase the Airborne "Tab" (I've gotten the AA round patch already), I would appreciate that information as well. A huge "thank you" to all who may read this and be of help.

Sincerely,
Sheila Q.

 

The lapel pin as you call it is a Branch of service device.I can not see enough of the design to tell which it is.Two crossed cannons=Artillery, Two crossed flint lock pistols= Military Police,Two crossed rifles = Infantry. There would be US pin on the other lapel.

 

Thank you so much for your reply. As for the lapel pin, my guess is it is two crossed rifles . . . as he was Infantry. So, that would make sense. Thank you for explaining that it signifies the Branch of service.

 

Unless I’m not seeing thing correctly on this phone, The Airborne tab should be blue with white lettering.

 

I doubt he was Infantry given that he is wearing the typical ETO-style Anti-Aircraft Artillery Command shoulder patch. The lapel pin appears to be the crossed cannon and shell of the Coast Artillery, which would be correct for an Anti-Aircraft Artilleryman.

Nor was there a "17th Airborne AA Battalion", the AA Battalion of the 17th Airborne Division was the 155th. The Coast Artillery (AA) M/G Battery (Seperate) was a different organization, stemming from a request for an air mobile organization that could be deployed for forward airfield defense. The first eight organized 27 April 1942 and by the end of the war, 59 were organized, of which 45 deployed overseas. The 708th embarked at the Charleston Port of Embarkation in May 1942, but I do not find that the 647th ever deployed overseas.

AFAIK the Airborne tab was only authorized for members of the Airborne AA Battalions organized for the five airborne divisions.

 

I am by far not smart in this subject but would the Airborne tab referenced above be the same (blue with white lettering) as a 82nd Abn tab? I see the Anti Aircraft patch without the Abn tab in some pictures and if it is the same as the 82nd you can definitely find one cheaper than $200.

 

Hi everyone and a HUGE "thank you" to all who have shared what you know and could decipher from the photo I uploaded. I do apologize, as I now agree with all of you about him not being Infantry. For some reason I thought I had seen reference to that in some of his military documentation, but find that was in error. A special thanks to RichTO90 for the level of detail you shared. If you happen to read this reply, or if someone else knows the answer, what did you mean by the "ETO-style" Anti-Aircraft Artillery Command shoulder patch? I am not very well-versed in military lingo, so I'll need some help with this one.

Again, a huge thanks to everyone for your time and contribution!!

Sincerely,
SheilaQ

 

Hi Sheila,

In the European Theater of Operations (ETO) the style was to wear the AA Command patch on the left shoulder of the uniform. The 49th AAA Brigade in the ETO did have a separate distinctive insignia, but it was only common among the personnel of that headquarters. Similarly, in the Southwest Pacific theater, a different distinctive insignia was worn by the 14th AA Command, while personnel in the US wore one of the regional (Eastern, Southern, Western, and Central) command patches unless they were assigned to HQ, AA Command. So basically if he was wearing the AA Command patch, he was either part of HQ, AA Command in the US or was in the Mediterranean Theater or was in European Theater. The rest of the info seemed to indicate ETO...embarking at Charleston in May 1942 meant his destination was England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, or Iceland.

 

Hi Richard,

Wow! Thank you so very much for the additional information. I may be able to provide you with some more detail from Amos' DD-214. All is shows, regarding his "Military History" is that he enlisted in Clarksburg, WV 13 Feb 1943 and began active service 16 Mar 1943. His separation date was 27 Jan 1946. During his active duty, his DD-214 (equivalent) shows him participating in the following: New Guinea; South Philippines Liberation, American Theater, Asiatic-Pacific Theater. Those were also the replacement medals his son received from the Nat'l Personnel Records Center in St. Louis -- along with the WWII Victory Medal and a Good Conduct Medal.

I had just finished posting a new thread with a new question, but perhaps you may be able to answer it as well. Is there a way, or place, to find out exactly what specific battle(s) Amos took part in within the Campaigns?

I realize many of my questions may be extremely elementary for someone like yourself who is obviously VERY knowledgeable about all of this. But, I figure this is one good way for me to learn (or try to) . . . and I look forward to being able to share a much more "efficient" consolidated form of what I learn with Amos' son. So, please know that I sincerely appreciate your time, and everyone else's, who is willing to be patient and help me with this.

If helpful, I've attached a copy of the inside cover of Amos' Basic Field Manual dated April 7, 1943 indicating that he was a Corporal, in the 647 AAA and Machine Gun Battery, 14th A/B(?) Bn. (he abbreviated), at Camp Steward, GA. I would appreciate any thoughts you may have on that as well. Again, Richard, thank you so very much for your time!!!

Sincerely,
SheilaQ

 

Thank you Lou!! Yes, this site IS amazing!! I've learned so much just in the short amount of time I've been using it (3 days!!). I'm hugely grateful that you folks are so patient with "uninformed" people such as myself about military-related information. I look forward to learning much more and do appreciate your reply. I'm aware I use quite a few words, which can be a bit painful for many men (ha ha), but I do appreciate your, and everyone else's, willingness to help me. Thank you again.

 

Hi Sheila,

That is helpful, but raises more questions. The 3d, 9th, and 12th Airborne AA Battalions were organized 10 February 1943 and the 13th, 14th, and 15th, 3 September 1943 as "Headquarters and Headquarters Detachments" as a higher headquarters unit to which the Airborne M/G batteries could be attached for command and administrative purposes as needed. The 14th A/B AA Bn was organized at Camp Stewart, Georgia, but never left the U.S. It was inactivated at Camp Chaffee, Arkansas on 9 May 1944, along with the 13th and 15th Battalion. The 3d Bn did go overseas to Australia, leaving San Francisco on 26 June 1943, the 9th followed on 26 July 1943, and the 12th on 28 August 1943. In addition, a 16th, 17th, and 18th Battalion were organized overseas in India and Burma 22 June 1944.

So given he went overseas, it was not with the 647th Battery or the 14th Battalion, they all stayed in the U.S. Nor was it with the 708th - I believe it went to Europe. Does his DD-214 give a date for him going overseas? That may help. I suspect he was transferred to the 3d Battalion when it went overseas.

 

Hi Richard,

Oh goodness! Thanks so much for even MORE details. And, yes, the deeper we (YOU) seem to go with what you know, the more confusing it gets to me too. Lou Russo had recommended I upload Amos' DD-214 (equivalent). I did in my reply to him, but I'm unsure whether this forum allows you to see what I uploaded to show him. So, please forgive me if this ends up being redundant, but I'm attaching Amos' DD-214 (equivalent) to you as well here. Maybe it will make much more sense to you than it does to me. It just does not seem to provide the level of detail I had hoped for. Please let me know if there is anything else I might be able to provide you with that will help clear up the confusion.

As in all the times before . . . thank you SO very much for your time and effort in trying to help me. Please know there is no rush. I hope you have a great evening, wherever you are. Take good care . . .

Sincerely,
Sheila

 

Okay, now we're getting to it. He left CONUS on 19 October 1944. The units that departed San Francisco for the Pacific theaters in October (official dates for some of these are later, but that is usually the main body) were:

102d AAA Brigade HQ & HQ Battery
734th AAA Gun Battalion (SM)
143d, 156th, 158th, 159th, and 160th Operations AAA Detachment

I suspect he was assigned to one of these units after he trained as part of the 647th M/G Battery, when those batteries and the battalion headquarters still in the States were inactivated. The 708th M/G Battery is likely only the unit he was assigned to after returning to the States for discharge.

 

Hi Richard,

Oh my gosh! It truly never ceases to amaze me how experienced Army personnel can glean so much from so little!! Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but is CONUS "Continental US"? And, I cannot help but ask . . . how on earth did you come to the conclusion you did about when/where he left out? Then again, maybe it's not that important that I understand "how" as much as it is "what" you determined. This may be HUGELY helpful, as you may have remembered my getting information back for the Nat'l Archives folks that they have some boxes of info. related to the 708th M/G Battery. But, I'd be very interested to know if they have info. on the unit(s) he was part of when overseas.

So . . . is there any way for me to find out exactly which unit(s) he was assigned to overseas? And I will now risk demonstrating an even GREATER level of ignorance (smile) . . . but were the New Guinea and Philippine Liberation assignments what constituted the Asiatic-Pacific Theaters that he received the medal for? Did they overlap or rather, would he have gone to one and then the other before returning to the U.S.? Sorry, I guess you've figured out by now that I ask a LOT of questions. Just curious and trying to learn and understand.

I'm still so amazed at what jumped out at you form the DD-214! What an AWESOME find!!! I sincerely cannot thank you enough, Richard. And, again, I so hugely appreciate your patience and time in sharing the level of details you have with me. I will look forward to what you have to say in answer to these latest questions. But, please know, you can certainly wait until tomorrow so that you can enjoy the remainder of your evening. This is REALLY very exciting!!! Amos' son is going to be equally amazed!! Have a wonderful evening.

Sincerely,
Sheila

 

Sheila, I suspect that the New Guinea Campaign was an overlap award...his units happened to be in theater at the right time to qualify for it. It looks like he probably served in the Philippines Campaign exclusively. That is where those units went. Unfortunately there is no way to know what unit he was in. The only possibility would be to check the morning reports for all the units he might have been in during that time, which can be a herculean task and one not done at Archives II in College Park, Maryland. The morning reports are kept on microfilm in St. Louis.

Anyway, his DD-214 says when he left the Continental U.S. (CONUS) and when he returned. It's paragraph 36.

 

Hi Richard,

Wow! Thanks so much for clarifying . . . and you likely saved me a trip and a LOT of time in College Park. And thank you for bringing to my attention the CONUS dates. I never looked at the DD-214 that closely in that area, as I must have made the "assumption" (yeah, I know - smile) that those blocks were health-related. So am I understanding those dates right that he left the US October 19, 1944 and returned to the US January 20, 1946 and was out of the country for that long?

And, I suppose while I've taken up so much of your time and effort already, I'll go ahead and ask you if you know the significance of the attached picture of another shoulder patch that is/was on one of Amos' later uniforms. I can confirm, if need be, but I believe it is one of his uniforms from when he was in the National Guard after active duty. It was one of his khaki uniforms - I have the jacket here with me. This same patch was also on a khaki dress shirt -- which I removed to put in the shadowbox I'm working on. This jacket also had the sewn-on various Campaign ribbons (corresponding with his medals) on it. So, I'm not sure if the "2" patch is from active duty or when he was in the Guard (West Virginia). I've also attached a form showing his promotions, etc. when he was called back up in the early 60s. Don't know if they will be of interest to you or not. I'll let you decide if either the "2" patch or this other document are worthy of any additional details/comments.

Again, Richard, thank you for all your help and patience. Goodnight.

Sincerely,
Sheila

 

You could try to contact the office of the U.S. Army Provost Marshall General (military police and CID). They might offer some tips about tracing a soldier's work history through the paper trail.

 

The "2" insignia is postwar Second Army.