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WWII, V-E Day: The War in Numbers versus The War of Numbers

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by Arusha, May 7, 2019.

  1. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    Penalty Strike: The Memoirs of a Red Army Penal Company Commander, 1943-45 by Alexander V. Pyl'cyn

    Following his first major debacle in December 1941, the Moscow Battle, Hitler ordered to raise/form the "Battalion 999 of Straf-Batallion 999" and "Straf-Batallion-500" units or death squads manned by court-marshalled soldiers and officers or criminals, if/when found guilty.
    During the heat of the Stalingrad Battle, in the summer and autumn of 1942, Stalin signed Order # 227, NOT ONE STEP BACKWARD (Ni Shagu Nazad), a set of measured designed to stop panic and retreat unless ordered to do so. Commanding officers were authorized to perform a summary execution or "shoot at site" in order to enforce the discipline. Order No. 227 by the People's Commissar of Defence of the USSR - Wikisource, the free online library
    As a result, the penal companies and battalions were formed. Penal companies were intended for the rank-&-file men and and released criminals or released political inmates whereas penal batallions were intended for the commissioned officers, if/when court-marshalled. The term of penal service was limited to three months or until first blood (if/when wounded in battle); thereafter the survivors coud be reinstated in their original rank and position. The total strength of the penal units over the 1942-1945 periods amounted to 428,000 men; the casualties rate would be 3-5 times higher versus the losses sustained by regular troops.

    P.S. 284,344 men and officers were sentenced to death and 157,593 men and officers,out of that number, faced the music throughout the 1941-1945 periods for a broad range of military crimes and offences including more than 4,500 cases for rape, loot and robbery in Germany or elswhere. Source: "Novaya Gazeta"
    Дожить до расстрела.

    The author of the book Artem Drabkin is notable for his collection of personal WWII stories and first-hand accounts shared by soldiers and officers from diffrent arms and services of the Soviet Army.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  2. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    In my opinion, a feature movie entitled, GUGA, 1989, could be an emotionally charged story of how that whole mess involving a penal company in action could have looked/been like, The Russian language version of the story is availabvle via YouTube; I am not sure about a version of the same with subttiles. It is the Soviet/ Russian soldiers' cannon-fodder story in WWII. Feedback is a mix of pro and con opinions....

    You can try and type GUGA film or ГУГА кинофильм for the YouTube to show it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Well, doing a little more research, the hangman's identity is as yet, unknown, he could have been Lithuanian or German. There were two Lithuanian policemen there overseeing the hangings, and the hangings were carried out by the German 707th Infantry Division. The Lithuanian officer you speak of, was the commander of the Lithuanian security detail, not the actual hangman.

    You sense incorrectly...I neither hate nor love the poem, it's Ok as Russian poems go, but the english translation is nonsensical.

    You need to find someone who is fluent in both english and russian for the poem to have meaning in translation. For instance:
    Dosen't make much sense...Seems to imply that a debt is owed by the reader to the Russian dead, but the English wording implies that the debt is owed by the Russian dead to the reader.

    Everybody was kung-fu fighting
    Those kicks were fast as lightning
    In fact it was a little bit frightening
    But they fought with expert timing

    What are these cowboy comforts? I would think a good communist would have said, bourgeois comforts.

    Forgive me, I was under the impression that the Soviet troops died defending the Motherland, not so that current Germans could be free of Hitler.

    I have not made any personal attacks against you, I have only attacked historical fallacies in what you are presenting.

    I discuss things point by point, so as to avoid confusion. Hence there is no "I didn't say that"


    As all poems are open to opinion, I would say that this is less about the author and more about the rise of neo-Nazism.
     
  4. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    Dear Sir,
    Thanks for the comments. I can see you have carefully read and fully understood the entire text of the poem. Now, I do hope the meaning of the message will get home, sooner or later. Drilling hard rocks takes time and requires patience. Please forgive me for my substandard English; hope your Russian or German is better. I am off now, and until next time after some 5 or 6 weeks. I will miss my discussions with you; something tells we could make good or better friends; nevertheless, we can communicate and trade our controvercial concepts and ideas. Your "likes" and my "like" are miles apart, just can't wait to catch up. Best regards. P.S. If, per chance, you have more time and the nerve to watch THE GUGA (with someone's linguistic support, I wish I could be sitting next to you to deliver; something I can't do and won't, regretfully), you will, probably, forget about me, let alone the verbal sparring, though all movies are always fiction. Ciao....
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  5. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    P.S.# 2. Just a reminder or for clarification: I am a Royalist, if using your language terms, and when using my language terms, I am a committed Monarchist. That means and implies that in my eyes YOU might as well qualify for a Socialist, Communist and Bolshevik bonded together, the Bourgeoisie is a Maxist term introduced to justify the take over of the private propety; the proper word would be the "Promyshlennik" or "Industrialist", if that is the case. My sincere apologies, if I said something wrong; no offense is intended or implied. Just do remember Jesus's new commandment that we ought to "LOVE ONE ANOTHER."
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  6. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  7. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    Yes Sir, it is a good point, though there is more to that. Likewise, during those years ordinary people in the Soviet Union were not allowed to know and learn more about the pro-Nazi collaborationists in East Europe and in the Baltic Republics and the Ukraine as well. It was politically incorrect and technicaly risky, of sorts. One should not be surprised to find out about the actual origin of certain pieces of fine art, paintings or expensive silver in your host's home, when over there, sometimes. According to the history books it was only the Nazi Germans who did bad things; all others were innocent, allegedly. Now they're coming back and claim innocence indeed, in the Ukraine (UPA), in Estonia, in Latvia, in Lithuania... The pro-NAZI collaboration story is politically incorrect these day because that involves nearly every nation in Europe except for the English, the Greeks and the Serbs. The total strength of volunteers serving, working and fighting for the Nazis accounts for 7-digit numbers..... The only de-nazified country in post-war Europe was the GDR (East Germany); all other regions and countries from the Axis and their Sattelites including the former Soviet Republics occupied during WWII were spared the exercise of de-nazification. I'd rather stop at this, since the story may continue non-stop. Today, there are Nazi veteran-parades taking place every year in Lvov, Tallin, Riga..? My apologies, for the verbiage. Off I go...... "See" you in August.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  8. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    The Controversies of the Targets for Uncle Joe Falcons
    Raising a controversy, as promised, though not sure... August 23 marks the 80th Anniversary of the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact, 23 August 1939. Tried to see the connection between this Pact and the Munich Deal, September 30, 1938. This is an updated post that includes new items.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  9. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    This is what I have found to include into the above post:

    1) Triumph Over Violence (Обыкновенный фашизм) with English Spanish subtitles - a documentary film by Michael Romm, 1965, entitled “The Ordinary Faschism.” A story of what it is all about….regretfully forgotten these days in Russia as well, both the film and the contents thereof. English subtitles.

    2) Avalon Project : The French Yellow Book : No. 33 - M. Coulondre, French Ambassador in Berlin, to M. Georges Bonnet, Minister for Foreign Affairs. Berlin, December 15, 1938.
    According to the French Yellow Book, in 1938, the French knew from their German counterparts about the future of Poland and East Europe (1 September 1939) and didn't care much about it.... One can revisit the above post to read the quotes from a letter # 33, from French Ambassador to Foreign Affairs Minsiter, Berlin, 15 December 1938.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  10. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    Hi there,
    I have discovered a couple of stills dating back to 1941 period in WWII, the beginning of Arctic War, in particular, and which are now a documentary story (no fiction). I have posted this story as usual:
    A SMALL STORY OF THE BIG ARCTIC WAR
    There was a request for Russian sources on WWII.
    There is a Russian counterpart to this Forum and which is: http://waralbum.ru/
    There you will find a wealth of photographic evidence with sub-titles or comments. The second column of HOME PAGE reads in Russian: КАТАЛОГ = CATALOGUE. There you will find all the photos which are available from different sources, and free to use; no registration or subscription requested. This is a platform for all to use its functionality. Concerning the language issue, I would recommend using an Internet dictionary
    Словарь Мультитран and which is Multitran for a user to type and gain access to this resource; it includes Russian - English or English Russian function, apart from other language pairs. It is also accessible and free to use.
    I have also posted a message from the Great War ,1914 - 1918.
    The Computational Experiment in Higher Mathematics or Political Science Education in the XXI Century
    This is more about people who had seen it through; in terms of the format it is both musical and poetry, 5 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  11. Arusha

    Arusha Member

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    Бои на южных подступах к г. Сталинград 25.08 - 13.09.1942 г. (Страница 1) — Вторая мировая война — Форум проекта "Военный альбом"
    Translation of the Ttile: Page 1: Battles in the southern outskirts of Stalingrad; 25 August - 13 September 1942. Forum, Waralbum Project. Second World War

    To anyone who might be interested in this Russian waralbum.ru/ FORUM format. Firstly, my apologies for the language bar. This is just for general undestanding of what it is all about and how they do it.
    There can you see a detaled description of the early phases of the Battle of Stalingrad; situation reports, maps, German and Russian documents, stills. The page contains a brief outline of the battles in progress between the 57th Army under the command of General Tolbukhin and 64th Army under the command of General Shumilov fighting to beat off the attacks mounted by the 4th Tank Army under the command of General Got, in the area of the southern outskirts of Stalingrad, at the end of August 1942. Details include first -hand accounts available from officers and men who had been engaged in battles in that particular location.
     

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