Z-1 "Lebrecht Maas"

heh heh heh--the black wound badge looks more like the ww1 wound badge, BUT!! could also be a KONDOR LEGION Black Wound Badge.

 

Fw 200 Condor's did you say ? Way cool !! Yeah from the dark image it could be just about any of the three but it's pretty neat to me regardless......

Carl, I'm picking up a strange book on flares and air-signals used by the Luftwaffe and dropped over the Nördsee and Atlantic during 1944. Possible useage of the mysterious homing beacons FuG 302 where they were dropped by Ju 290's and Fw 200's at low altitude and they pre-set themselves for 5 or so hours whereby the U-booten force could familiarize themselves with the co-ordinates on their map systems. If the book is 1/2 way decent I will try and make some page copies for U if interested ? More stuff for my FAGr 5 interests.......

E

 

Sure--but dont stress yourself out doing anything for me. I can wait. Also, im currently trying to get some nice multiplace ribbon bars on ebay. There are several that you would be interested in as well. All that I figure you would like are luftwaffe, with a few having been in the Afrika Korps and others in Luftwaffe with Long Service awards. The few with multi L.S. awards were also most likely ww1 pilots having againb served in ww2.

 

Are these bars indicitive of long time service or would they indicate rank ? I'm totally dense when it comes to this part of the uniform .......

E

 

Actually you are correct on both counts. The ribbon bar judging from the type of awards and number of awards will automatically tell you two things.
1) That he served in both world wars.
2) Offhandedly it will tell you if he was an officer of not--from the decorations.

Most multiplace ribbon bars if not 99% of them that I get (3 places or larger) the first award is always an EK2 1914--or 1939 EK2 if it is purely a ww2 bar. After that--you can have almost anykind of awards there including veterans organizational awards (Kyfferhauserbund)--for example.

For instance and from memory, one of the Luftwaffe bars I saw showed him with ww1 and ww2 service. Now I might be mixing up awards from different bars but, I did spot a Luftwaffe bar with I think 1-2 long Service awards--meaning he was a ww1 vet. You can easily tell the difference between Luft--Heer, KM and SS bars. On the long service ribbon (which is blue) if it is KM--it will have a gold colored Wehrmacht eagle on it) if it is SS, it will have the SS runes on it, if it is heer--silver eagle on it and if luft--will have the Luft style (flying eagle) on it.

One of the Luft bars also indicated that he served in the Afrika Korps, and possibly before then--in the Kondor Legion.

Here is how to find these, and the ones im bidding on: www.ebay.de and in the search box type in: bandspange, and it will/or should take you to where all these ribbon bars are. You will seee that I am bidding on 9 ww1/ww2 ribbon bars, and a few of them are from the kingdom of Saxony (green and white ribbon on the bar) and I am bidding on 1-2 Brunswick bars (dark blue with yellow stripes) the others im not yet sure what principalities they are.

Anyway--i hope you can take a look and see if you wanna bid on them. This will be the cheapest way for you to get some nice bars.

PS, if I dont answer you before Sat-sun or monday--its because ill be in S.A. and then back to toiling at work.

 

Carl :

Still trying to understand the complexity of the bar(s). Now what awards would be mentioned and how is the WW1 and WW 2 differ ?

I'll be gone to friend from Sunday through Tuesday, just getting out of the house and relax without effort somewhere in the Oregon Cascades, most likely in a cabin.

E

 

Hello Erich and , the easies way to tell i sjust by looking at his awards. What I mean is, a 1914 Ek2 ribbon is black and white--a 1939 EK 2 award has red on the ribbon as well. Then had he been in the Imperial German military--you would see other differing variations on ribbons; for instance: if he had been from Saxony--you would see at least one Saxon award--but most likely more if he was an officer. Saxon colors are Green and White. If he was from Brunswick--the colors would be Dark Blue and Yellow. If he was from Waldeck--I think the colors are Purple and Green? not sure? Anyway--this would make it easier to find out alot about him just by looking at a german ribbon chart (which ill see if i can "borrow" one from Wehrmacht forums and UBB to you) then what I say will make more sense to you. Ill try that tomorrow since the library is about to close.

Oh and have a good time away--for me--the grind starts yet once again--tomorrow afternoon.

 

Thank you my friend ! I've had to do some re-arranging or I should say my wife has had too for our little get away. Will leave late Sunday morn and return late Tuesday eve.......maybe .....

E

 

Your welcome and..... I dont like the way you say maybe......

 

Carl, my wife is going to drive which always freaks me out, but it is necessary this time due to the way I am feeling......

say what happened to your Kriegsmarine Avatar...? That chap you've picked looks very familiar....

E

 

Heh heh heh.

For now Herr Luth is with herr Bredow at the Uboat Arvhiv--getting the Luth roon ready for visit. BTW--there IS a room dedicated to him there which was closed when Susanne and I was there--unfortunatly. I wonder what treasures we missed out on?

Oh thats just Big Joe waiting for Kelly to bring in the gold.

 

Erich--I know where you can get a cap tally to this ship--if interested--let me know. It is a bit pricy--but then again--all warship tallys are more expensive--as they are almost all perwar issue and worn--and before all went to the standard Kriegsmarine tally.

 

Carl, would that be Detle's site ? A number of intriguing tallies there..my mouth was watering. Say didn;t you get your Tsingstau(sp) tally from him... ? The S-boot tender, now that I would like to have !! , I think it something like $ 80.00 plus if he still has one. does ytours look like it is worn a bit or mint issue ??

E

 

The Lebrecht Maas tally is on Carsten Baldes site. Im thinking of ordering a near-mint Wound badge in Glod from him--or something else.

I have never heard of the tally you mentioned. The last two tallys I bought were "Kommodant Wilhelmshaven" and "Wilhelm Gustloff" and both are mint with the Gustloff tally being cutdown for possible mounting in a photo album, the Kommodant Wilhelmshaven tally is full length and totally mint--also still has its protective paper wrapping. Someday--ill get good pics made of these and see if Otto will post them on the site for the heck of it.

 

Really ! Why was I thinking you had the S-boot tender one .... ? I must have been on drugs I suppose. Well it also appears that Weitze also has a few but Detlev's had maore I think and the prices were pretty reasonable. Around 140.00 US for the named Destroyers. How is Carsten B's prices in comparison ?

E

 

Herr Baldes had great prices and can be compared to Detlev. Im about to place a sizable order from him (possibly an 1870 EK2 with 1870 War Merit medal ((A 2 place 1870 medal bar) plus the ek has the 25 year Oak leaves attached)

 

Carl, how do you have these pre-ww 1 pieces mounted.... ? dark velvet backing to show of the awards or something similiar ?

E

 

Actually, ive never mounted any of my awards but, the best things to use are Ryker mounts or something with black velvet @#$%@^&#^ er--I just got the jist of your post. Naturally I use black velvet

Back to actual though.

If you are interested in having medals in a frame--Ryker mounts are the way to go. Black velvet is the best material to have as backing for any display--cept for Allgemeine SS stuff--it shows everything off much better.

 

I have some more info on the Leberecht Mass

On the 22nd Febuary 1940 the German 1st Flotilla was steaming in line ahead in the North Sea when it was attacked by aircraft. A bomb hit the Leberecht Mass and damaged her, and later a second explosion broke her in two. The rest of the flotilla closed in to rescue survivors. But then the Theodor Riedel reported a submarine contact on her hydrophones and tried to attack the contact with depth-charges but she misjudged her run and damaged her steering. The flotilla was then ordered to disperse and start a search for the submarine. Later when they returned to the wreck of the Leberecht Mass, the Max Schultz was missing.
Afterwards there was a prolonged investigation which discovered that the original attack had been by a Luftwaffe bomber,but the fate of the Max Schultz only came to light after the war, when British records revealed a large minefield in what the Germans had regarded as a swept channel. The most likely explanation of the disaster is that a german bomb hit the first destroyer, the subsequent confusion threw out the 1st Flotilla`s navigation and allowed it to stray out of the safe area into the British minefield. As the Max Schultz was lost with all hands we can only assume that when she blew up on hitting a mine( ? ) her flotilla-mates mistook the explosion for depth-charges . In all 578 officers and men were lost in this very odd incident.

ps, post war records show that no Allied submarines were in the area at the time of the incident.

source "Destroyers" by Antony Preston