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A different WW2 - USA a fascist state


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#1 Joe

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 11:11 AM

well, what would happen if The USA was the facist state ruled by a Dictator, and Germany and Japan where on the side of Britain and France?
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#2 Za Rodinu

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 11:21 AM

"Pobre Mexico, tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos" :D

(Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States)

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#3 Richard

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 12:22 PM

Canada would be invaded thats for sure. :rolleyes:

#4 Za Rodinu

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 03:16 PM

How did the US differ from Germany? The US came out of the Depression as a strong, democratic country, Germany came out a hotbed for nazi thuggery. What was different between them?

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#5 Slipdigit

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 03:36 PM

We're mutts. We don't have a single strong ethnic group to appeal to. At that time (30s), we were still very much a nation of immigrants, each a tab bit suspicious of the others, but totally inwilling to allow outsiders to split us.

And no matter how bad the economy was here, it paled in comparison to that of Germany. Plus we had been on the winning side during the Great War, so we had no scores to settle following a failed war and the total dislocation of our government as it existed.

There are other reasons, I am sure. I think we can safely say it wasn't "they were bad, we were good", I just think the Deutschlanders were more desperate. If times get bad enough, it could happen in any country.

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#6 PzJgr

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 03:54 PM

How did the US differ from Germany? The US came out of the Depression as a strong, democratic country, Germany came out a hotbed for nazi thuggery. What was different between them?


The US was a Republic and Roosevelt had an economic plan to get the Americans out of the economic mess.

The Germans was a very young (and unaccepted) republic and when Hitler was voted in (same time as Roosevelt) his response to the economic disaster was to blame the Jews and gear up for war.
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#7 Hawkerace

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 06:29 PM

USA would be the NSA [Nazi states of America] :P
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#8 tikilal

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:08 PM

While the difference might seem black and white, I can see a lot of grey. The US and no affinity for the Jew, the elected leader had no ability to physically hurt them, minorities such as Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, and the Indian populace were not treated so much better than the Jews in Germany. (Until Hitler consolidated power) Wearing stars was not needed, each race had its physical attributes to set them apart.

At the outbreak of hostilities, thousands of Japanese Americans had their homes, businesses and lives unlawfully taken from them and sent to internment camps, most were in the desert and hundreds died of exposure or health complications with their location.

Imagine if Bush could persuade the military today that the US needed martial law, he could become the first Emperor of the USA. And all of the Democrat gun control people would have nothing to use to defend themselves with… I would hope that this would never happen but it could if the military thought it was needed. Can you imagine the insurrection that every armed American would be part of. It would make Iraq look like a walk in the park.

Now remember that Germany was very militaristic, where the loyalty of the military was to the government, not the people. Hitler was elected from a populace where no more than 30% were members of the Nazi party, the power he usurped was originally given to him by the people and then through politics was ratified.
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#9 Sloniksp

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:20 PM

We would probably still be discussing how bad the comie's were!:D
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#10 Carl W Schwamberger

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 11:56 AM

Some people claim there was an attempt to overthrow President Roosevelt.

A year after Roosevelt was first elected a senior US Marine officer, Smedly Beutler, came to a congressman he was accquainted with and told a disturbing story. He had been approached by a businessman who claimed the backing of some of the most prominent wealthy families in the US. They thought Roosevelt was "bertraying his class" with his emergency economic policys to deal with the financial and employment crisis. They proposed that a large group of sympathetic WWI veterans march on Washington much like the Bonus Army that appeared in Washington when Hoover was President. Led by Beutler these men and other reliable US military men would place President Roosevelt and part of Congress into protective custody. A "CoPresident" would be appointed by the portion of congress still allowed to vote, and the nation would thus be saved from the evil Jewish communists behind Roosevelt.

A congressional committie investigated calling the men Beutler named to testify. All those appearing before the committie denied everything or refused to answer. A newpaper reporter well accquainted with Beutler also investigated and wrote a extensive story. The major newspaper chains did not print it and the story only appeared in a socialist party newpaper.

Not long afterwards a second 'Bonus Army' of unemployed did appear in Washington DC. Roosevelt made sure the US Army would not attack war veterans again, and he & Eleanor had their photos taken passing out sandwiches to the unemployed men gathered on the Mall and camped along the Potomac river. Meanwhile the DC police quietlly arrested many individuals from amoung the crowds.

Nearly all the men Beutler and the later news artical named as part of this plot were later very active in isolationist groups opposing entry into WWII. Many were also amoung the backers of the movement to nominate MacAurther as the Republican presidential canadiate in 1944.

Fact or fiction? The congressional committe investigation, including Beutlers testimony is still in the Congressional Record in the national archives. The men Beutler named were active before & afterwards in various conservative, rightwing, some facist like organizations.

Whats strange is that a conspiricy would think Beutler their man. He came from a poor but well educated family, with a mother who had a strong Quaker upbringing. He had worked his way through merit without the use of familly connections, social privilige, or the 'Right School'. In the late 1920 he had been given a three leave from active serivce to take the post of Police comissioner of Phildelphia to clean a up a badlly corrupted city. Not a likely canadate to execute a coup.

#11 Roddoss72

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 01:31 AM

How did the US differ from Germany? The US came out of the Depression as a strong, democratic country, Germany came out a hotbed for nazi thuggery. What was different between them?


And the Soviets slaughtered 25 million of their own citizens go figure.
1917 to 1990, The Soviet Union and 25 miilion murdered civillians now thats progress.
Gulf War Two and 800,000 Iraqi civilians killed now thats progress

#12 Sloniksp

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 01:51 AM

And the Soviets slaughtered 25 million of their own citizens go figure.


Once again, this has not been proven and accepted by all. Russians would strongly disagree with this number and claim that it is inflated.

While there is no excuse as to what happend under Stalin's regime, it was afterall Stalin's regime. To claim that Soviets slaughtered 25 million of their own, may sound misleading, as the other 6 leaders after Stalin, did no such thing.

My intenstions are not to defend, but just to correct ;)
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#13 Za Rodinu

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:41 AM

And the Soviets slaughtered 25 million of their own citizens go figure.


Did you read the thread topic and the subsequent posts? And what does his has to do with them?

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#14 tikilal

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 06:10 PM

Maybe the 25 million were American infiltrators and so Russia, in her fight against the USA, rounded them up and killed them... I am stretching abit here but...
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#15 Za Rodinu

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 06:24 PM

Who knows, Tik, in the Great What If Twilight Zone everything is possible.

Germans win wars, Stalin goes on pilgrimage to Mecca...

Hey, we haven't tried that one yet :D

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#16 T. A. Gardner

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 06:31 PM

How did the US differ from Germany? The US came out of the Depression as a strong, democratic country, Germany came out a hotbed for nazi thuggery. What was different between them?


Hitler's rise to power was due to a combination of the nature of the porportional direct vote for parlimentary members that is common to much of Europe along with its attendent coalition building and, the political influence of big business in Germany. Basically, Hitler's party won about a third of the vote at best. His party formed a coalition with several others to give Hitler the position as chancellor / prime minister over the German Reichstag. Hitler was also backed by the big business heads because they thought they could influence him more than some of his rivals.
In the US, the indirect voting system using the Electorial College and a seperate Congress meant that a true minority candidate like Hitler would not only not rise to power but could not even get elected to major office. At best, a party like Hitler's might have won a few seats in Congress where their influence would have been negibile and remained so.
Helping this was that Germany was a much more homogenious culturial nation than the US. This made anti-jewish sentiment much easier to build as they could more easily be seen as a foreign / different culture than in the more culturially diverse US.
Once Hitler took the official reigns he quickly moved to consolidate his power base and ulitmately took control as a dictator.....Think Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe today. Same thing in all three cases: Legitimate rise to power then once in office quickly corrupting the system to allow the new leader to take over as "President for life," "Dictator" or, "Der Fuhrer."

#17 Hawkerace

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:37 PM

Who knows, Tik, in the Great What If Twilight Zone everything is possible.

Germans win wars, Stalin goes on pilgrimage to Mecca...

Hey, we haven't tried that one yet :D


How about, what if they used Elephants or bears for calvary?
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#18 Seadog

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:14 PM

There is a fundamental difference in American vs German attitudes. Germans are much more inclined to accept government control, as is most of Europe. Americans tolerate government at best. If you look at the all areas of life, we are constantly fighting to limit the goverment's control in our lives. Which is why we fight national health, national IDs, and many of the controls that many countries accept.
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#19 Slipdigit

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 02:57 AM

There is a fundamental difference in American vs German attitudes. Germans are much more inclined to accept government control, as is most of Europe. Americans tolerate government at best. If you look at the all areas of life, we are constantly fighting to limit the goverment's control in our lives. Which is why we fight national health, national IDs, and many of the controls that many countries accept.


That is especially true in the South and West. We fought a 4-year war over that 140+ years ago. Personally, the less the government is involved in my life, the better, especially where the Federalies are concerned. I don't trust someone I don't know telling me they are going to do me a favor because it is "for my own good." I'm getting off thread and stirring a pot....:firehelmet:

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#20 tikilal

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 06:36 PM

That is especially true in the South and West. We fought a 4-year war over that 140+ years ago. Personally, the less the government is involved in my life, the better, especially where the Federalies are concerned. I don't trust someone I don't know telling me they are going to do me a favor because it is "for my own good." I'm getting off thread and stirring a pot....:firehelmet:


Better be careful Bush could be reading this thread and the CIA will lable you a terrorist and off to Guantanamo for you.:)
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#21 Slipdigit

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 06:48 PM

Actually I am referring to the Democrooks with all their social programs and the "it''s better for you" laws they support.:cool:

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#22 Joe

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:52 PM

I doubt Mr.Bush is a member of WW2f-but it would be an honour if he was!
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#23 PzJgr

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:05 PM

Better be careful Bush could be reading this thread and the CIA will lable you a terrorist and off to Guantanamo for you.:)



More like the NSA. Been there, done that
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#24 Roddoss72

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 04:14 AM

Hitler's rise to power was due to a combination of the nature of the porportional direct vote for parlimentary members that is common to much of Europe along with its attendent coalition building and, the political influence of big business in Germany. Basically, Hitler's party won about a third of the vote at best. His party formed a coalition with several others to give Hitler the position as chancellor / prime minister over the German Reichstag. Hitler was also backed by the big business heads because they thought they could influence him more than some of his rivals.
In the US, the indirect voting system using the Electorial College and a seperate Congress meant that a true minority candidate like Hitler would not only not rise to power but could not even get elected to major office. At best, a party like Hitler's might have won a few seats in Congress where their influence would have been negibile and remained so.
Helping this was that Germany was a much more homogenious culturial nation than the US. This made anti-jewish sentiment much easier to build as they could more easily be seen as a foreign / different culture than in the more culturially diverse US.
Once Hitler took the official reigns he quickly moved to consolidate his power base and ulitmately took control as a dictator.....Think Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe today. Same thing in all three cases: Legitimate rise to power then once in office quickly corrupting the system to allow the new leader to take over as "President for life," "Dictator" or, "Der Fuhrer."


And Don't forget Stalin (Supreme Soviet) came to power through a bloddy revolution in 1917 and his subsequent rule was one of the most bloodiest in human history.
1917 to 1990, The Soviet Union and 25 miilion murdered civillians now thats progress.
Gulf War Two and 800,000 Iraqi civilians killed now thats progress

#25 tikilal

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 02:18 PM

I was beeing sarcastic. Although I often wonder how much is really being monitered, and yes it would most probably be the NSA or the FBI.

I am also tired of the social programs that seem to be popular among the Dems, it destroys the concept of work and humility. " We will provide everything you need to live like we think you are entitled to."

Okay, sorry, should have let this go, sorry.
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