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German Russian Relations in 39


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#1 tikilal

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 04:54 PM

Through the 30's the Russian and German relationships was practically non existant. There were several atempts at opening relations which were ended quickly by both sides. Only in the summer of 39 did things warm up and then slowly at first. What if this had not happened or taken longer say 6 months to a year. Would the invasion of Poland happened in 39? or would it have been put off till 40? If it the R-M pack never happened would the invasion of Poland happened?
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#2 Sloniksp

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 05:17 PM

Tikilal,

From my knowlege Russia had better relations with Germany then practically any other Western nation. Russia provided Germany with all which she needed. This goes all the way back to the Lenin conspiracy. ;)

Not sure what you mean by "Non-Existent".......
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#3 Kai-Petri

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 05:38 PM

Was there trade between Germany and the USSR once Hitler got into power in 1933 until the August pact was signed? After that yes, but before??
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#4 Sloniksp

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 06:04 PM

With the end of the war and the working out of the consequences of the Versailles Peace, the Soviet Union and Germany found themselves once again in each other's arms as victims of ostracism by the victorious Entente powers. The Treaty of Rapallo and the secret military
cooperation between the Red Army and the German High Command provided substantial benefits to both sides in the modernisation of their respective armed forces until Hitler's extreme anti-Bolshevism put a stop to the relationship in the early 1930s.
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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#5 Ironcross

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 06:51 PM

Germany should have allied herself with Russia. After WWI, both nations were isolated and hated by most of the world. IMO, Russia and Germany had the potential to form a strong alliance. Hitler’s view towards the communists was simply retarded, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were both German.
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#6 Joe

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 07:41 PM

Hitler’s view towards the communists was simply retarded,

:rofl:
Thats the best explanation I've ever heard!
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#7 Carl W Schwamberger

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 07:53 PM

Was there trade between Germany and the USSR once Hitler got into power in 1933 until the August pact was signed? After that yes, but before??


Extensive trade. I dont have numbers directly at hand, but from earlier reading can describe it as huge. Grain, raw materials, and partially finish industrial products from the USSR were roughly 1/3 of Germanys imports over two decades. Exports of chemicals and other industrial products to the USSR were critical to Germanys economy.

#8 Carl W Schwamberger

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:04 PM

.... Hitler’s view towards the communists was simply retarded, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were both German.


True, but remember Hitlers fundamental views were driven by his racial beliefs. The politcal beliefs were a distant second. The US even with Roosevelt as president was the most capitolist and free market industrial state on the planet and Hitler still considered the US largely unfit to do business with. He thought the Americans mongrels and racially contaminated by interbreeding with Africans, Jews, Native Americans ect...

Had the White Armys won the Russian Civil War and the Russian empire still existed Hitler would have decribed the as ruled by degenerate Slavic/Jewish Aristocrats rather than degenerate Slavic/Jewish Bolshiviks. And, attacked it anyway.

This relates to his odd statements in Mein Kampf and his speeches about the British being Germanys future partner in ruling the world. He thought the Brits as of the Aryan race & therfore equals to the Germans.

#9 tikilal

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:18 PM

After Hitler came to power all of the cooperation between Germany and Russia was disolved. Trade was non-existant unitil the M-R pact. My source is a book called Russias War by Richard Overy. Once in 35 Stalin sent people to try and open talks, when it failed he had them executed.
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#10 Slipdigit

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:21 PM

victims of ostracism by the victorious Entente powers.


I would not use the word "victim" in describing either country in this context. One had just recently been involved in a war where they had violated the neutrality of a neighboring nation and excercised unrestricted submarine warfare, also involving neutral nations. The other had had just come out of a civil war where the one plank of the winning party's campaign platform was the over-throw of all other governments. :confused:

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#11 Fallschirmjaeger

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 12:01 AM

Not sure what you mean by "Non-Existent".......


Maybe it means they were neutral? I don't know.

#12 von Rundstedt

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:55 AM

Whether they had good relations or not they had one goal and that was the destruction of the Polish State, Poland was doomed and that Germany and the USSR would eventually come together for that cause.

#13 tikilal

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:15 PM

But would Germany have risked the war with Poland if Russia had not been in on it?
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#14 Sloniksp

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:26 PM

The other had had just come out of a civil war where the one plank of the winning party's campaign platform was the over-throw of all other governments. :confused:


But lets not forget that Russia too played a part in WW1 and suffered greatly. Either way neither country was admired very much. ;)

But I do see your point.
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#15 Sloniksp

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:34 PM

Whether they had good relations or not they had one goal and that was the destruction of the Polish State, Poland was doomed and that Germany and the USSR would eventually come together for that cause.


But would Germany have risked the war with Poland if Russia had not been in on it?



This is an interesting point and till this day a hot topic of debate. Lets not forget that both countries ( Germany and Russia ) at on point owned either parts of Poland or all of it.
Afterall Marienburg ( capital of the Teutonic knights ) was in what is now Poland. Poland was part of the Russian empire until Lenin ceded it to Germany in return for a truce so he can launch his revolution. Both countries wanted their former lands back.

Poland never had a chance.
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#16 PzJgr

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:43 PM

This is an interesting point and till this day a hot topic of debate. Lets not forget that both countries ( Germany and Russia ) at on point owned either parts of Poland or all of it.
Afterall Marienburg ( capital of the Teutonic knights ) was in what is now Poland. Poland was part of the Russian empire until Lenin ceded it to Germany in return for a truce so he can launch his revolution. Both countries wanted their former lands back.

Poland never had a chance.


This is so true and this was Poland's time of real freedom as an independent country and there was no way the Poles were about to let the Western allies giveaway any land like in Munich. The Poles were going to fight. They totally refused help from the Soviets because they knew that once in, they would never leave. You are correct, Poland never had a chance.
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