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Identifying a Relic.


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#1 Martin Bull

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 03:05 PM

Seems to me to be a good idea to have a thread with this heading.....

Just back from my Normandy holiday and now the Fun Part II begins - trying to identify the relics ( Fun Part I was finding the stuff ;) ).

Walking the fields between Chambois and Moissy in the Falaise Gap, I spotted this tiny circular object lying on the surface.

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As can be seen from the 10p piece, it's really small. However, it's obviously non-ferrous and as it has a broken 'axle', looks as though it may have been an adjusting wheel of some kind.

Of course, there are always those who will immediately say that it's part of an old washing machine, or something off Farmer Giles' tractor.....:rolleyes:

Back home, and a gentle rubbing-over with an old toothbrush reveals something embossed on the inside of the 'wheel' ; three letters and two figures ; -

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Under strong magnification, that's 'hkb42' which even I recognize as a German Manufacturers' Code ( so, it's not part of a washing-machine or tractor ;) ).

Luckily, the internet has some very good sites listing the codes and so it's fairly easy to find that 'hkb' was : -

J. Weissensee GmbH, metallwarenfabrik of Fulda

and the part was, of course, made in 1942.

'J. Weissensee' are still going strong, specialising in copper precision parts for air conditioning, medical equipment, etc.

And as to exactly what 'my' part is, well...who knows ? But there's no doubt at all that it's a bona fide relic of the Falaise Gap......:cool:
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#2 Joe

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:19 PM

That looks to me like a British 10 pence coin.











Oh? You mean the one on the left? Err, can't help you on that one I'm afraid.
Posted Image

#3 272VGD.

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 10:44 AM

Is a part of a filter system of a German gasmask.
(information thnx to my own forum)
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Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#4 Martin Bull

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:55 PM

Nick - that's great ! :)

Thank you very much indeed - and to give credit also where it's due, when I showed the relic to Jagdpanther44 in Chambois last week, he immediately said 'Part of a German gasmask' but then wasn't so sure.

Well done, guys ! :cool:
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#5 Martin Bull

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 03:25 PM

This is another quite nice relic from Normandy. I found this in the small wood at Le Bas Aubry which overlooks Moissy and Chambois and was used during the River Dives crossing by German artillery.

Some scrubland had recently been cleared and had revealed a number of pieces of unrecognizable metal, but this piece was complete : -

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It is too rusty to reveal any marks but it's relatively undamaged ; the rubber gasket inside the lid is very brittle but complete which is remarkable after 64 years.....

I think it's a lid ( the spring-clip and hinge are still there ) from a steel carrying-canister of a shell ; I don't know what type but the lid is 13cm across.

I like it - it's one of the best relics I found last week.:)
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#6 272VGD.

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 03:26 PM

Its German thats for sure... its a lid of a artillery container or something. Were used for many types.
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#7 Martin Bull

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:34 PM

I hereby nominate 272VGD as the WWII Forums 'Rusty Relic Expert'.....:)
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#8 272VGD.

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 05:27 PM

Hahaha thank you very much!! I guess.... :D
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#9 272VGD.

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 05:32 PM

To put a picture with the story.
This is an container for the German Nebelwerfer (I believe so), with the same lid as yours.
They where also used on 8,8 cm Flak containers and other calibers.

Sorry but this is the best picture I have... I sold the container a few years ago because I didn't found it myself.


Posted Image
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#10 Skipper

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:20 PM

Good show Nick! I was going to say a lid too, but I hadn't thought about a Nebelwerfer. It's hard to be sure though as Martin's lid is in a battered condition, but both items look alike.

Vorsicht+Feind.JPG


#11 272VGD.

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 10:39 PM

I know for sure but I can't show you guys because the item is not in my posession anymore. But ones again this kind of lid was used for all kind of container-stuff.

Regards,
Nick
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#12 Erich

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:23 PM

I cannot tell for certain but is the lid hinged and or threaded for a screw on or off type of lid ?

#13 Martin Bull

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 06:33 AM

It's just hinged, with the rubber gasket to seal against moisture.

Thanks for the image, Nick. I've seen these containers being sold ( for very high prices ) at Militaria fairs but again - I know that my relic was there, in the 'Hell of Falaise'.....
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#14 Skipper

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 03:14 PM

and it's your relic Martin and the sentimental value makes it priceless for the finder

Vorsicht+Feind.JPG


#15 Martin Bull

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:25 PM

Well, this one has rather defeated me so far...anyone got any ideas ?

Here's the actual moment of finding it in a Falaise 'Corridor of Death' hedgerow.....

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And here it is after just a gentle cleaning-off.....

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The drain-hole and pressed ribbing should be a give-away ; I've definitely seen these for sale at Militaria fairs and I'm fairly certain it's the base of some kind of munitions carrying-case....? :confused:
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#16 272VGD.

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:10 PM

It is an part of a US or UK mortar container.
Used for different types of mortar's, like the US 81mm but also the UK 3 inch types.

Between 2 of this steel "ends" the mortars where fitted in carton containers.
The 2 ends where hold together by an iron whire located in the hole you see in the middle.
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#17 272VGD.

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:21 PM

I found these a lot near Groesbeek, a few years ago.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#18 Martin Bull

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:58 PM

Once again, thanks Nick ! :)

I knew I had seen these somewhere before.....
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#19 krieg

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 01:01 AM

nice pics thanks may i ask what did you do with all your findings :confused:
for thow . will be ours someday.we shall have it all
.:ww1ace:.. und mear...:snoopy:....

#20 272VGD.

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 07:21 PM

I take a few with me, also the UK jerrycan with bullit and scrapnell holes. The rest I leave behind, you find these very often, it isn't funny anymore after a while.
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#21 Martin Bull

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 06:23 AM

Same for me this time in Normandy. I brought back the most identifiable or unusual pieces - or, like the broken steering arm, unidentifiable but 'typical' of the Falaise Gap. The other stuff was replaced where I found it.......
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#22 272VGD.

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 11:00 AM

Made some pictures in the Poteau museum yesterday... maybe this is a better picture of your "lid" posted before.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#23 Skipper

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 02:19 PM

cool pictures. It's nice to see this in such nice condition with the original paint.

Vorsicht+Feind.JPG


#24 Martin Bull

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 05:19 PM

I love the Poteau Museum - absolutely one of my favourite private museums in Europe ! :cool:
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#25 272VGD.

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:07 PM

Offcourse.... the owner is Dutch so that says enough. ;)
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...




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