Jump to content


Photo
* - - - - 2 votes

USA won World War Two and saved England ?


  • Please log in to reply
407 replies to this topic

#51 Martin Bull

Martin Bull

    Acting Wg. Cdr

  • TrusteeOKF Trustee
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,647 posts
  • LocationLondon, England.

Posted 14 August 2006 - 07:18 PM

Well said, Brian - and thanks for putting in a bit of perspective...

graemlins/salute.gif
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#52 Duns Scotus

Duns Scotus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 14 August 2006 - 08:17 PM

Hey Canadian man and all you other posters-sorry to harp on but ''England'' wasn't at war with Germany-it was the United Kingdom-England, Scoltand, Northern Ireland and Wales who were at war in W.W.2
''England'' hasn't been at war with anybody since May 1st 1707 when she signed the negotiated Treaty of Union with so please all you posters on this topic! it is laughably innacurate to talk about ''England'' fighting Germany-England has never-on her own- been at war with Germany in her entire history.
  • toki2 likes this
Brian Donald

#53 sapper

sapper

    British Normandy Veteran, Royal Engineers

  • WWII VeteranWWII Veteran
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 704 posts

Posted 15 August 2006 - 07:25 AM

Completely agree with you Brian Donald..
When I write about WW2, I always, without exception, usd the GB or the UK. It was only used in this reply because of the specific referal to England. My company was a mixture of Welsh Irish English and Scots. Together we achieved great things.

My best mate was Jock Mathers. Sadly he was killed and is buried at Marheeeze in Holland. I have been into battle with the Ulster Rifles. and with the pipes of the Kings Own Scottish Borderers.

My most emotional memory is the day we entered Caen under heavy fire, with the Pipes of a khaki kilted KOSB trooper heard above all the din of the scream of shells, and blast of mortars.

WE did it together, and what great comrades in arms they were.

Now in my Eighties, I recall the day I went to war to the tunes of the pipes. It still sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it.
Sapper

#54 ANZAC

ANZAC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 245 posts

Posted 29 September 2006 - 04:41 AM

Quote by sapper.........
___________________________________________________________________________________

I dont suppose there are many left from those times? Well there's me! And friends, I have the lumps to prove it


During the isolationist period in the USA. The British stood completely alone against the rampaging Nazis. We had no allies, no help. We were alone, the lone outpost of freedom in a sea of Nazi evil.

The reason the USA came into the war was due entirely due the attack on their fleet by the Japanese, I dont think they would have come in, had it not been for that attack.

What did make the USA think, was the possibilty of a Russian controlled Europe. For they may well have won the war eventually.

The fact that they did come in, I for one was very thankful. I fought alongside the Americans near Vire, and in the Falaise pocket.

My mate "Spud" and myself even captured an American in the German army. Though he was not a willing enemy, and was pleased to get captured,
I wonder what happened to him?
If you are out there mate? two British soldiers captured you coming down from a hay loft!

I liked the "Yanks" and they treated us like Lords. Together we did the job, for what ever is said, the fact remains that many young men from across the pond died for a better world for Europe.
Sapper...
_____________________________________________________________________________________


Very interesting post sapper, from someone who actually put his life on the line for the rest of us, I take my hat off to you.

And what you said about just when would the U.S. enter the war in Europe but for Pearl Harbour and Hitler dragging them in to it.

Roosevelt was for it, but as you say the U.S. was very isolationist at the time and may well have just concentrated on Japan.

Although I think they would eventually have to get involved.

#55 MARNE

MARNE

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts

Posted 29 September 2006 - 07:33 AM

Originally posted by sapper:
My best mate was Jock Mathers. Sadly he was killed and is buried at Marheeeze in Holland. I have been into battle with the Ulster Rifles. and with the pipes of the Kings Own Scottish Borderers.

My most emotional memory is the day we entered Caen under heavy fire, with the Pipes of a khaki kilted KOSB trooper heard above all the din of the scream of shells, and blast of mortars.

WE did it together, and what great comrades in arms they were.

Now in my Eighties, I recall the day I went to war to the tunes of the pipes. It still sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it.
Sapper

Evening Sapper,

Thank you for bravery, devotion to duty and above all from one American to a Tommie, thank you for protecting our freedom here in the U.S.A., because if it weren't for all of the forces of the United Kingdom, huffy little Adolf would have been on our door step. So, I thank you deeply, Sapper.

I found it interesting that you brought up the Ulster Rifles and the Kings Own Scottish Borderers, because in Charleston, South Carolina two hours north of me there are a fantastic group of lads portraying them in WWII public battles and living histories to keep their memory alive and well. Also here in my native state of Georgia, in north part of Georgia is a unit who portrays the Ulster Rifles and they are a great bunch of lads aswell.

By the way I love you guys song...

"Hitler has only got one ball!,
Goering has got two but their small;
Himmler he has got something similar,
And poor Goerbels he ain't got any at all!"

(To the tune of Col. Dolby's March) :cool: :cool: :cool:

Regards,
MARNE
[sigpic][/sigpic]
"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

#56 Za Rodinu

Za Rodinu

    Aquila non capit muscas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,809 posts
  • LocationPortugal

Posted 29 September 2006 - 09:24 AM

graemlins/salute.gif

Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra...


#57 Sloniksp

Sloniksp

    Ставка

  • TrusteeOKF Trustee
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 29 September 2006 - 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Richard42:
The following is not my view but I found it to be interesting reading.

=================================================

Americans commonly claim that the USA won World War Two and saved England from Nazi rule. This is myth. The USA did not come to Europe’s help in World War Two. During the Second World War, Roosevelt’s response to Churchill’s request for help was to agree to give Britain fifty old and pretty useless destroyers to help with the war effort. In return, Churchill had to hand over a ring of valuable British bases.

When Churchill asked for more help the USA demanded all the UK’s gold, as much money as the UK could borrow and insisted that all available public and private assets be sold. The Americans demanded entry to Britain’s export markets and Britain had to hand over details of numerous new British inventions (including the jet engine). These were goodwill gifts which the USA demanded not in return for helping Britain in the war against Hitler (they didn’t) but simply to agree to sell arms to Britain.

Roosevelt and the USA did nothing to help Britain until Germany made the mistake of declaring war on the USA. America’s post war economic success was and is built upon the exploitation of Britain in the early war years. That is a fact which we should never forget. However Europe was saved when Hitler and Mussolini declared war on the USA on December 11th 1941. It was only then that America was forced into the European war. It was Russia led by Stalin, which helped Britain most (not the USA). The Russian army destroyed far more of the German army than the Americans did. Britain ended the Second World War ruined, both industrially and economically. As for America they came out on top.

=================================================

After reading this article it left a bitter taste. We paid a high price for what could have been very little help; it's a tough one to think about? Should all of us in the UK thank Hitler for declaring war on the USA?

Thank god for the U.S.!!!! if it wasnt for them we would probably all be speaking German!! lol
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#58 Za Rodinu

Za Rodinu

    Aquila non capit muscas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,809 posts
  • LocationPortugal

Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:09 PM

Or Russian :D

Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra...


#59 Duns Scotus

Duns Scotus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:13 PM

Hello Sapper!-great post!. Yes, in 1961-aged 19- I made my very first visit to London, England, from Scotland to watch the then annual Scotland v England soccer international (England won 9-3-ouch!).
On hearing I was going down to stay in London for a week prior to the April 1961 Wembley match, a veteran of the Scottish divison who fought in North-West Europe in 1944-45 asked me to look up his best mate -a Londoner who had served with the Jocks.
All I had to go on was a wartime black-and-white picture of the Scots veteran and the Londoner standing in 1944 beside a wrecked vehicle in their Scottish uniforms.
But I'm a tenacious fellow and I actually tracked down this Londoner/honorary Jock who lived in Lavender Hill, South London, and I was treated right royally by his whole family.AND the two comrades-in-arms circa 1944 in North -West Europe, were reunited and visited each other until their respective deaths in the early 1990's.
Brian Donald

#60 Duns Scotus

Duns Scotus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:26 PM

Hey Marne-I too love the song you quoted which we sang as kids in Scotland to the ''Colonel Bogey March'' however, as Goebbels had -I think five kids-he was remarkably fecund for someone so allegedly handicapped in the song lyric.
My biggest beef with you Americans-being-as you are- from Georgia- I won't dare call you a Yankee!-is that you guys ancestors killed loads of our good Scottish troops at the Battle of New Orleans in 1814- which took place 24 hours AFTER the peace treaty was signed in London, England, to end the War of 1812-14-thank goodness for the internet and a great pity that it wasn't around in 1814.!
Thank
Brian Donald

#61 Duns Scotus

Duns Scotus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:40 PM

Sloniskip-the stuff you quoted was clearly by some revisionist clown!-without help from the U.S.A.- between 1939-41 especially- we British could not have held out indefinitely against the Nazis.
THE fact that the source that you quote says ''England'' when they really mean the ''United Kingdom'' in W.W.2, shows how dumb the person expressing the views you quote was.
I'd like to walk this clown around the American War Cemetery at Madingley, near Cambridge, England, which I visited in 1997,and show him the rows of white Headstones similar to those shown in the opening and closing scenes ofthe 'Saving Private Ryan' movie. Graves which show how vacuous and idiotic seeing America's contribution to Britain in W.W.2 solely in terms of dollars and pounds really is.!
Brian Donald

#62 Sloniksp

Sloniksp

    Ставка

  • TrusteeOKF Trustee
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Duns Scotus:
Sloniskip-the stuff you quoted was clearly by some revisionist clown!-without help from the U.S.A.- between 1939-41 especially- we British could not have held out indefinitely against the Nazis.
THE fact that the source that you quote says ''England'' when they really mean the ''United Kingdom'' in W.W.2, shows how dumb the person expressing the views you quote was.
I'd like to walk this clown around the American War Cemetery at Madingley, near Cambridge, England, which I visited in 1997,and show him the rows of white Headstones similar to those shown in the opening and closing scenes ofthe 'Saving Private Ryan' movie. Graves which show how vacuous and idiotic seeing America's contribution to Britain in W.W.2 solely in terms of dollars and pounds really is.!

Refresh my memory please how did the U.S. help united kingdom from 1939-41 other then what was mentioned. Considering the fact that the U.S. entered the war 2 years after England did.
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#63 MARNE

MARNE

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 03:13 AM

They're called convoys? graemlins/no.gif On those convoys were the much needed raw and war materiel that helped them to defend themslves and to wage war back at the Germans from 1939-1941. Thats how the US helped them. We even helped the Russians with the lend-lease program of 1940 to allow us to ship vital war materials to them to fend off the German onslaught in 1941.

Regards,
MARNE
[sigpic][/sigpic]
"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

#64 Sloniksp

Sloniksp

    Ставка

  • TrusteeOKF Trustee
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 03:44 AM

Originally posted by MARNE:
They're called convoys? graemlins/no.gif On those convoys were the much needed raw and war materiel that helped them to defend themslves and to wage war back at the Germans from 1939-1941. Thats how the US helped them. We even helped the Russians with the lend-lease program of 1940 to allow us to ship vital war materials to them to fend off the German onslaught in 1941.

Regards,
MARNE

Marne you are correct sorry I for some reason I thought Duns referred to actual troops. ( yes I know that a small amount of U.S. pilots volunteered to got to England and help fight the nazis )
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler


#65 MARNE

MARNE

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 06:58 AM

Its actually kind of funny but, believe it or not do you know who the first US troops were there on the ground in England....? Its a funny revelation...nope not the US Army, nope not the USAAC...Nope not the US Navy....it was....THE US MARINES!...They were guarding the US Embassy there in London!

Regards,
MARNE
[sigpic][/sigpic]
"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

#66 Ali Morshead

Ali Morshead

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 393 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 09:22 AM

Plus the 1st Division USMC garrisoned Iceland until the US Army got its act together.

Dont forget that the USA forced the Brits to pay for these supplies, which bankrupted the UK many years. Or they handed over obsolete DD's in exchange for Stategic bases, many which are still US Military bases.

IMHO, :eek:

The British Commonwealth saved Great Britain and the USSR won the war (In Europe at least).

Without the volunteers from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India etc etc the Brits would have either surrendered vast swathes of Africa or weakend the defenses of Great Britain to a point where Invasion may have been possible. The Commonwealth Navies supported the RN and many RAF Aircrew were from the Commonwealth, even before the EATS was in place.

Weapons from Commonwealth arsenals helped re-equip the Britiah Army after Dunkerque and foodstuffs shipped in kept its population fed.
Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941

#67 MARNE

MARNE

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Ali Morshead:
Plus the 1st Division USMC garrisoned Iceland until the US Army got its act together.

Well Ali,

Your close but not quite there...

Your are correct in saying the 6th Marines were a part of the 1st Marine Division. However, once they reached Charleston, South Carolina they were no longer apart of the 1st Marine Division. They had been redesignated too..the 1st Marine Provisional Brigade. The entire 6th Marines at the beginning of the war were not up to full strength so officers and enlisted personnel of the 2nd and 8th Marine Regiments volunteered to for duty in the 6th Marines to bring them up to wartime strength.

Regards,
MARNE
[sigpic][/sigpic]
"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

#68 jacobtowne

jacobtowne

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Duns Scotus:
Hey Canadian man and all you other posters-sorry to harp on but ''England'' wasn't at war with Germany-it was the United Kingdom-England, Scoltand, Northern Ireland and Wales who were at war in W.W.2

As I read it, it was Great Britain and the Commonwealth Nations, along with the U.S. as allies, who fought and won both wars - the one in Europe and the one in the Pacific. I say this because it was like fighting two almost separate wars.

There were plenty of New Zealanders and Australians who fought in all three theaters - Europe, C.B.I., and Pacific.

The author of the article in the original post neglects to mention the Lend-Lease Act of March, 1941. I wonder why.

JT

Posted Image


If the caption is illegible, the photo shows New Zealand machine gunners in the Monte Cassino Sector, 1944, armed with Smith & Wesson .38-200 revolvers.

#69 MARNE

MARNE

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:34 PM

Originally posted by jacobtowne:

all three theaters - Europe, C.B.I., and Pacific.

Actually, there are four theatres...Europe, Pacific and the two most neglected theatres...C.B.I. and the Mediterranean, so really...ETO, PTO, CBI and the MTO.

Regards,
MARNE
[sigpic][/sigpic]
"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

#70 jacobtowne

jacobtowne

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:41 PM

Point taken. I included the Mediterranean in the ETO. But what about North Africa? Is that included in the MTO, or is it a separate theater?

JT

#71 Ali Morshead

Ali Morshead

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 393 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:45 PM

And the Aleutians & Caribbean
Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941

#72 MARNE

MARNE

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:10 PM

Originally posted by jacobtowne:
Point taken. I included the Mediterranean in the ETO. But what about North Africa? Is that included in the MTO, or is it a separate theater?

JT

Hey JT,

Its included into the MTO....

When individuals forget to mention the MTO or the CBI its just one of my erks...it simply disheartens me to see it neglected since so many fought, were made fun of and poked at and died in the theatre and then its cast aside like it was never part of WWII. So, whenever I do living histories and get the chance to talk about the MTO I do, to remind the public that there were soldiers fighting and dieing for every inch of ground before D-DAY and before the Easy Co. 506th PIR crowd ever finished jump school. :D :D

Ali,

Quite right, we musn't forget the north Pacific and the south Atlantic there was a alot of fighting going on in those regions aswell.

Regards,
MARNE
[sigpic][/sigpic]
"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

#73 jacobtowne

jacobtowne

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts

Posted 06 October 2006 - 04:26 PM

Hello Marne:

Understood. It certainly makes sense to include the North Africa, Sicily, and Italy campaigns in the same theater, the Mediterranean.

From my limited experience, two of the most neglected and forgotten areas are the Phillipines Campaign (exclusive of naval engagements - I'm taking about liberation of the islands) and the C.B.I. How many youngsters of today have heard of Frank Merrill or Joseph Stilwell, to say nothing of Ord Wingate?

JT

#74 Duns Scotus

Duns Scotus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:29 AM

Sloinskip -Whci history books do you read?-''England has never been at war with Germany in its entire history-only the United Kingdom-England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Irleand were at war with Germany between 1939-45.
''England lost the right to make war independently on anybody in 1707 when she signed the Treaty of union with Scotland.
Brian Donald

#75 Ted

Ted

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 55 posts

Posted 19 October 2006 - 01:53 AM

First off FDR new that it would be considered an offense to the Axis if he 'gave' supplies to the allies to fight the axis. So he brought in the Lend-Lease Act, this allowed for free trade throughout the atlantic. so we were allowed to sell/lend supplies to the allies. Second we did save England. Englands army was out, their navy couldn't leave the harbor (for fear of U boats), and they'd lost their foot hold in the Pacific. The last place they had that wasn't their own soil was africa. They would have probably lost this if it weren't for the U.S. invasion of the Solomon islands. England (excluding africa) had been driven back to its own soil and was preparing for the obvious imminent invasion. Yes they won the battle of britian (with American planes mind you), but that alone wouldn't have stopped hitler. You can't win a war simply by being on the defensive, you have to go out an attack you enemy sometime. England had no where to go, it couldn't launch any offensives, it was essentially trapped on it's own island. Third, Russia was definetly keeping the germans busy. But until the American invasion of the medditeranean, Russia was all it had to worry about. Until the invasion of italy, Germany was winning the battle with russia. when we invaded southern europe in 43 hitler had to send much of his needed troops on the eastern front to fight in italy. Same with the invasion of france. If we never fought hitler there is strong evidence to suggest that hitler would have eventually defeated stalin (especially if japan invaded the USSR). It was the fact that from the moment we invaded europe hitler now had to fight a war on two fronts. The plain fact of the matter is, we couldn't have done it without russia, and russia couldn't have done it without us. when we invaded europe it relieved immense pressure from russia.

But the article fails to mention any of the countless attacks on U.S. ships by u boats, which infuriated Americans. Or the attack on Pearl Harbor, which brought the U.S. into the war in the first place. FDR new he would never be able to gain enough support for a pre emptive attack on the axis, so he never asked for it. America did care about the war before we entered it. But for us it was an "over there" kind of war. It didn't effect enough of us for us to want to get involved in it. That is, until Pearl Harbor.

What everyone needs to remember is that the allies defeated the axis. not the russians, or Americans or british. It was a team effort. Without one of the essiential positions on the team we were doomed. We needed Russia to win, we needed Britian to win. We didn't need france, but we needed America to win. No single nation could have alone defeated the axis. However it is a fact that America entering the war turned the tide. As Yamamotto said after he bombed Pearl Harbor: "I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve."
"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything." Teddy Roosevelt




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users