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Where is the proof that Hitler died that day?


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#1 Totenkopf

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:08 AM

I was watching a documentary on History channel about WW2 (like every other day LOL) and during a commercial there was a little widget about that day in the Hitler bunker. They said "There was no actual proof that Hitler died that day, just the accounts that his body was there with a hole in its head. Can we expect the truth first thing? There has been moments like this in history. There could be the possibility just as well that he escaped to South America, there is even the possibility that he could still be alive today if not recently died"



No its not like anybody can speak for what happened that day, but judging by what the Nazis could do and have done (Throw me a bone okay?) what are your opinions on matter. Also I would prefer that nobody quotes something from a book because that is contradictory to the post.Written history was not always true

Heh.. they are scratching your paint job, Helmut!


#2 PzJgr

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:43 AM

I can't see a reason for lying about the actual date he shot himself. the proof is in the testimonies of the Fuhrer Bunker staff. What kind of proof are you asking for if we can't quote from a book?
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#3 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:55 AM

There could be the possibility just as well that he escaped to South America, there is even the possibility that he could still be alive today if not recently died"



No its not like anybody can speak for what happened that day, but judging by what the Nazis could do and have done (Throw me a bone okay?) what are your opinions on matter. Also I would prefer that nobody quotes something from a book because that is contradictory to the post.Written history was not always true



He would be about 114 years old!!! Are you serious? So you want info that only supports you then?
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#4 Totenkopf

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 01:04 AM

Sorry I meant to express that I would like facts from a book that supported the possibility and facts from those that were there. But anyways I just wanted your opinions on the possibility that he escaped and lived for years afterwards. I personally think it could be very well possible that he escaped.

Stalin had doubles, maybe Hitler did to... :bucky:

Heh.. they are scratching your paint job, Helmut!


#5 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 01:08 AM

My opinion? Hes dead and died in Berlin. Dental pieces and teeth along with the skull fragment that the Soviets had matched the dental records and a X-ray of Hitler's head. This conspiracy theory has been around for years. Just wishful thinking for some. Just another "What If?".
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#6 Von Poop

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 01:36 AM

Lev Bezymenski's book 'The Death of Adolf Hitler' is worth a read.
It comes with some caveats due to it's roots in the Soviet era but has a real flavour of the events surrounding the hunt for Hitler's corpse and the autopsies of the various remains found at the bunker (from Hitler himself to the Goebbels children) from one who was present and at the centre of the business. There's a sense of a great deal of pressure from above causing some sloppiness in the recording of death/deaths but the essential basis of his tale convinces.
There are later more comprehensively researched books that do better at tying up loose ends, but Bezymenski's is the one that stuck with me.

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#7 Erich

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:29 AM

according to Addi's sister he died in South America in the 1950's, there was a newspaper article in Austria of which I copied and pasted years ago for this site and others...no clue where it might be

conspiracy theory ......maybe, maybe not ; sure the Soviets would of loved to have made the claim they found his charred remains and set the record straight if they could ..........

I'm still not clear really on the whole thing and truly don't care the piece of s*** is dead and that settles it

#8 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:42 AM

You are right. Hitler is dead and the World is much better for his being so. I remember this :).

Discovering the truth, the whole tooth about Hitler's Death

By David Stephenson

Source: Sunday Express (London), June 29, 2003, pages 54-55. More information about the investigation.

Posted ImageThe Fuhrer's elaborate dental bridge work provides the key to a 50-year-old mystery, reports David Stephenson.

NOT WITHOUT some irony, you would imagine, the KGB had labelled the blue cardboard box Operation Myth. Inside, was the evidence that German forensic scientist Dr Mark Benecke hoped would solve one of the great historical riddles of all time: how did Hitler die and what happened to his remains?

Benecke couldn't believe his luck on a visit last year to the Russian State Archive - which had taken possession of the box from the KGB - when an archivist offered to show him its sensational contents. Incongruously stored in a floppy disk box was the charred top of a human skull with a large bullet hole - but did it really belong to one of the most reviled men in history?

Benecke's fascinating story is told in a National Geographic Channel documentary called Hitler's Skull on Tuesday but, oddly, the most interesting aspect of the story does not centre on the skull cap but on Hitler's teeth.

Benecke was the first person outside Russia to see and closely examine the dictator's elaborate dental bridge work.

The KGB - now known as the FSB - had decided to keep the two dental bridges rather than the skull cap and agreed to show them to Benecke. It was a breathtaking discovery. The scientist managed to match the top bridge to a 1944 X-ray of Hitler's head which American and British secret services had recovered from one of his doctors. Benecke says: "Hitler had very bad teeth. Before the war, he had asked his dentist Blaschke to fix his teeth for a final time. He wanted the bridge to survive for many years.

"Blaschke, who had trained in America, made a massive, solid metal bridge for Hitler which was very unusual and easy to recognise.

"Along with rumours that Hitler had very bad breath, I cannot imagine how he and Eva Braun ever kissed!"

Hitler married Braun just 36 hours before they both committed suicide on April 30,1945, as Russian soldiers prepared to storm their bunker in Berlin.

Hitler's remains, along with those of Braun, were incinerated with 140 gallons of petrol. Their bodies were then thrown into a bomb crater in the Chancellery garden, along with other unidentifiable bodies from the nearby hospital.

The German leader had wanted his body burned so that he would avoid the humiliation meted out to fellow fascist Mussolini, whose corpse was strung up before the Italian public.

Later, Hitler's lower jawbone and two dental bridges were found by Red Army soldiers, who put them in a cigar box. The jawbone now seems to have disappeared but the teeth and skull cap were recovered by the Russian secret service.

Dr Benecke, who works with the German police on criminal cases and has a crime show on German television, says his examination and photographs may have helped to solve a 50-year-old mystery.

DR BENECKE added: "This is the first time anyone has pieced the whole thing together: the skull, the teeth and the documentary evidence. As it turned out, I was the first scientist to take pictures of both the teeth and the skull. One colleague had seen them before but that was all.

"It's crucial to take high-resolution pictures. You have to document every millimetre, every inch of the object, which I did. The big difference now is that they allowed me time to examine them thoroughly."

This is not the first time that a skull cap supposedly belonging to Hitler has been shown in public.

Three years ago, the Russian State Archive exhibited a section of a forehead which measured approximately 3.5in by 4.5in, which it said was Adolf Hitler's.

It was slightly darkened by charring and had a bullet hole visible above the left temple but this seems to differ from the section featured on the National Geographic documentary, which shows a bullet hole, possibly an exit wound, at the back of the head. That suggests Hitler had shot himsefrthrough the mouth.

Dr Benecke says: "From a scientific standpoint, we cannot say. EVIDENCE: The metal dental bridge held by Russia's State Archive is proof that Hitler is dead, says Dr Benecke it was definitely Hitler's skull until we check for DNA.

"The piece of skull is also a little too small. Some other parts would have been more helpful in an attempt to identify how old the person was, for instance.

"From a criminologist's standpoint, however, I was talking to the people in the archive and the story is totally conclusive to me. Why would they forge or falsify evidence? It would have been better for them just to let the skull disappear because Stalin didn't want it to be there in the first place. They could have just have thrown it away or something. It makes it all the more believable that it is the real skull."So why was the box labelled Operation Myth? A joke?

He says: "I put it to the archivist that, if I had a box in my shelf called "Operation Myth, I would, for sure, in a secret moment, open it but she said: 'You don't understand how we were working here hi Russian communist times. No one would even touch the box, especially since the RGB had brought it over.'

"That's all part of the riddle because the teeth are still held in the former KGB archive as they were recovered from Berlin by the military police and the secret service. In my opinion, the KGB wanted to leak the information that Hitler was really dead. When Stalin died, someone thought it was safe to do so, so the skull was released to the State Archive. They were probably also fed up with all the nonsense conspiracy stories, too."

THERE WERE many such stories. Depending on which theory you believe, Hitler escaped the bunker alive and fled to Argentina, Tokyo (by submarine as claimed at one point by Stalin) or Brazil. If he were alive today, he would be 114. Dr Benecke insists: "You could challenge the validity of the skull but the teeth are absolutely conclusive. They are definitely Hitler's."

So what has Benecke learned about the last moments of the dictator's life? He says: "Hitler and his officials first tested that the cyanide was still working by killing his pet dog Blondl about a day before the suicide. That's why you can see a picture of the dead dog.

"On the final day, Hitler and Eva Braun were sitting on the sofa on which their bodies were found and, most likely, they took the poison together.

"Hitler then shot Braun before shooting himself. You can see a little of the blood on the side of the sofa, parts of which I examined in the State Archive where they are held."

Dr Benecke says that, as far as he is concerned, any mystery surrounding the death of Hitler is over. He adds: "It's good that I did a proper forensic investigation so that we can continue our lives. It puts the whole Hitler story to rest."

Would Benecke like to do a DNA test to finally confirm that these are definitely Hitler's remains?

"Absolutely," he says. "It was only that I didn't have a sterile drill with me at the time that I didn't take a sample. I would like to do a DNA match but, otherwise, the story is over for me. There is no secret left."

Hitler's Skull, National Geographic Channel, Tuesday, 9pm

2003-06-23 Sunday Express:Discovering the truth, the whole tooth about Hitler's Death - ForensicWiki
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#9 Za Rodinu

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 06:48 AM

I was watching a documentary on History channel about WW2 ... Also I would prefer that nobody quotes something from a book because that is contradictory to the post.Written history was not always true


That's why the reliability of a book will have to be checked by source criticism, and comparison to other works.

What to say about the History Channel then :rolleyes: ? I call it the BS Channel :dead: :bored:

http://www.ww2f.com/...ry-channel.html

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#10 Kai-Petri

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 06:54 AM

Hitler had all the time in the world to leave Berlin in 1945 but he refused whereas Himmler and Göring were more than willing to go as fast as possible. I believe personally he could not have continued being the Führer he wanted to be somewhere else like South America. So he decided to die/vanish with the Third Reich in Berlin.

Whether the skull part belongs to Hitler, it would definitely be interesting to see the DNA match with the Hitler family just to see if it belongs to the man really. I don´t think the dental bridges prove the death 100% so the skull DNA would be the only prove here.
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#11 Martin Bull

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:03 AM

Ironically, this is one subject which has been very well served by books....

The three major Allied powers went to the most extreme lengths to verify the story of Hitlers death. For the British, H R Trevor-Roper was first in the field with 'The Last Days Of Hitler', for the US, Musmanno interviewed Bunker survivors ( information used by O'Donnell in The Berlin Bunker ).Stalin went to almost insane lengths to establish the facts ; the Soviets had captured several key Bunker witnesses including Gunsche, Linge and Baur. These witnesses suffered lengthy imprisonment and extreme psychological pressure. A personal dossier for Stalin was prepared using the results and this has only recently been published under the title 'The Hitler Book' with an introduction by noted historian Richard Overy. There is also an excellent overview of all earlier sources ( including Bezemensky and numerous others ) in Anton Joachimsthaler's 'The Last Days Of Hitler - The Legends, The Evidence, The Truth' published in 1996.

Basically, all the witnesses agree, and none of the major facts as cited by Trevor Roper have been seriously challenged ( and don't forget that at one point the Soviets very much wanted to 'prove' that Hitler was alive and under US protection ).

So my opinion, derived from the reading of numerous books, is that the facts are settled.

Where WWII is concerned, the sad fact is that from now on, books are pretty much all we're going to get. I don't subscribe to the post-modernist view that 'history doesn't exist'. There comes a point when we have to use our own judgement of the professionalism and motives of the historians who write the books.

( BTW : Who are the historians who make these 'History Channel' programmes ? :confused: I'm just wondering, as I don't watch them....)
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#12 Kai-Petri

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:18 AM

One of the reasons that led to "Hitler lives" myth in my opinion is the fact that the USSR did not officially declare Hitler dead until early 1960´s when Lev Bezymenski's book was released. Plenty of time for rumours to circulate. If I recall correctly Hitler was announced dead in West Germany in 1954-56 i.e. ten years after war.
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#13 Za Rodinu

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:37 AM

( BTW : Who are the historians who make these 'History Channel' programmes ? :confused: I'm just wondering, as I don't watch them....)


The credits at the end of the programs never show any names recognisable to me, so not wishing to sound arrogant I'm not inclined to put much belief into their simplistic, shallow and watered down views. Over here Discovery Science runs a series on haunted houses ;) Basically, it sells.

Some discussion here http://en.wikipedia....ry_(TV_channel)

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#14 Erich

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:18 PM

I don't buy it, but like Kai mentioned in his last sentance about the pug Austrian, 54-56, and ya know what the world did not do a shake up with the news..........because nobody really cares then or even now.

#15 Skipper

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:50 PM

Why even bother doing DNA test, this could turn the teeth into relics and if they don't belong to him, some stupid rumors would start again. He's dead. Period.

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#16 ValkyrieKatrina

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:20 PM

My opinion? Hes dead and died in Berlin. Dental pieces and teeth along with the skull fragment that the Soviets had matched the dental records and a X-ray of Hitler's head. This conspiracy theory has been around for years. Just wishful thinking for some. Just another "What If?".

my opinion exactly:) I remember when the national enquirer published alleged photos of Hitler boarding a U-boat in south america in 1982...his health was horrible toward the end of the war anyway and he probably would have died in the 50's if he had lived. Bormann was another perenially (sp) spotted nazi after the war even though his remains were discovered in 1971 in berlin. conspiracy theories are fun and diverting but mostly just speculation at best.:cool:
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#17 bigfun

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:43 PM

He's not dead. Sturmkreuz just spotted him!!

http://www.ww2f.com/...ne-weekend.html


(sorry but I alway have to go for the cheap laugh!:D)
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#18 Totenkopf

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:08 PM

Not that I am a comspirator, I was just wanting to know the proof, versus the fact that he could have lived on for some years afterwards. Now I can understand that all for you think that he shot him self for sure. Yes though; I agree that I agree that even if he escaped he would be dead awhile now.

Heh.. they are scratching your paint job, Helmut!


#19 Sturmkreuz

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:28 PM

Still alive, after cyanide, shot in the head, burned, burned again, buried several times with the only skull & teeth left.

Did Bambi fought in Vietnam or in the Gulfwar? Same question


Yes, I just spotted him.

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#20 Erich

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:36 PM

well death head I do not believe he shot himself so scratch one opinion. Addi was too much of a weakling to take his own life, he would of worked on a design to get him out of Berlin at anyones costs not to himself to be enslaved by Russian hands

there is still plausibility that he could of escaped though I am always out-voted. one thing to remember ladies/gents is that the Soviets did not have total air control over Berlin 24-7

#21 Sturmkreuz

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:44 PM

Erich that was. Think of Anna Reich ;)

But Adolf never wanted to leave Berlin, he wanted to die there. He had a change to escape to Norway(?) but he refused. Don't forgot that Hitler when he died (Normal way) he wanted to be buried at the Hall of Honor, next to the eight.

I don't think he was that weak, he had problems with his right hand, he went crazy still I think he had enough power to use his left hand to shoot himself. When he didn't, I guess, other soldiers would've done it (When Hitler asked too). Still besides that, they knew that Hitler never wanted to be taken prisoner by the Russians.

When he fleed, Adolf would've been found for sure.

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#22 Erich

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 09:51 PM

not so much weak as in physical B ~ I think he was weak minded and truly believe he wanted out of Berlin as quickly as possible to escape and end his days elsewhere.
Well it's over and he is gone and good ridance forever

#23 redcoat

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 10:15 PM

Hitler didn't die in the bunker....Here's a video documentry that proves it ;)


YouTube - Monty python-hitler scene!
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#24 Za Rodinu

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:48 AM

It's all here.

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#25 Skipper

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:57 AM

I thought Sturm bought him a beer on a café terrace last week ? :D .

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