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Relics from Schnee Eifel 16-06-'08


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#1 Aru-Ed

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 12:09 AM

Last monday i went on a trip for the first time with 272VGD., someone we all know!
And i can say it was a succesfull trip.
First we started at a spot i picked out, we had to climb a steep hill and on top of that hill there where some foxholes.
We could see we where the first to dig there in 63 years, and that was a big relief.
In the first hole i found a German Göffel (fork/spoon combo) but it was in a pretty bad shape.:

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272VGD. had a nice bleep in an other hole while i whas searching the area, i found a German spade and a zipper (German) withleather still attached to it.:

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So i returned to 272VGD who unearthed a MG-42 ammobox and several clips for a Stg.44.
By shaking the box we could hear there was still someting inside it and he clould manage to open it without a scratch.
The contence cought us by surprise, there where 2 MG-belts with ammo, 4 parts for the MG-42, 2 oil canisters, a wrench and a cloth.
All in nearly new shape, dripping and shining in weaponsoil.
This was amazing, just take a look at these pictures!



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And a picture after just opening:

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http://i235.photobuc...el/P6160306.jpg



http://i235.photobuc.../P6160308-1.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/P6170337.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/P6170340.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/P6170350.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/P6170343.jpg



You can imagine how are faces looked!
We emptyed de belts and got rid off the live ammo, 272VGD gave me one belt and 1 of the 4 MG-parts, i'm still thankfull for that, it whas his find!
After that we seached the area more and found a part in the woods where the empty casings where scatterd over the forestfloor, from both parties.
Here we found an US pinegranate and after the picture was take we dug it back in the ground:

http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02484.jpg



Also i found a part of a US gasmask, a German "tube Fussalbe" and a rotten BAR-magazine:

http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02504.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02509.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02510.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02511.jpg
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#2 Aru-Ed

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 12:29 AM

We also took some nice shots of the surrounding area to give you an idea of how it looks like:

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But lets continue with the trip-report, now we moved to an area that was picked out by 272VGD, and this was also a nice area.
Within 5 minutes after turning on my detector i found a M3 plastic scabbard near a foxhole:

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We moved up to an others spot and soon after i found a German Reichssportsabzeichen in bronze, together with some uniformbuttons and a little hanger, probebly belonging to the same soldier.
This was a big day for both of us and we coulden't be more lucky!

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http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02522.jpg



The abzeichen after cleaning:

http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02490.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02492.jpg



Also i found a part that is most likely from the .50 Browning.

http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02518.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02519.jpg



http://i235.photobuc...el/DSC02520.jpg



This is a day we both won't forget for a long time.
I thank 272VGD. for lending me some of his pictures to make this thread.

#3 Slipdigit

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 01:59 AM

Ed, have you ever looked over the woods east and southeast of Rocherath/Krinkelt Belgium? There the 23rd Inf Reg of the 2nd Inf Div made a critical stand Dec 17 & 18 and lost heavily. The line ran about 1km to SE over to a point about 3km east.

Best Regards,  
JW :slipdigit:

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#4 jagdpanther44

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:16 AM

Fantastic finds, well done to both of you.

The MG42 parts are bolt and cartridge ejector assemblies, can any maker marks be made out on the ammo cannister?

Edited by jagdpanther44, 19 June 2008 - 10:01 AM.

Regards
John

"It is always wise to look ahead, but difficult to look further than you can see" - Winston Churchill

#5 Martin Bull

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:31 AM

Those are some amazing finds...as John says, especially the German weapons parts.....:cool:
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#6 Skipper

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:33 AM

Yes absolute amazing, it seems like the belts were buried there yesterday! I really like the insigna too. It was carefully cleaned and you can read the text on the back.

Vorsicht+Feind.JPG


#7 Aru-Ed

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 11:47 AM

Ed, have you ever looked over the woods east and southeast of Rocherath/Krinkelt Belgium? There the 23rd Inf Reg of the 2nd Inf Div made a critical stand Dec 17 & 18 and lost heavily. The line ran about 1km to SE over to a point about 3km east.


This was my first time outside the Hurtgen Forest area, maybe a next trip i'll take a look in the woods you are mentioning.
Do you perhaps have a map of that line, if so, please send me a PM.

To the others, thanks for the response!
Later 272VGD. will add some comment, also about the marks on the oilcanisters!
They are in his possesion.

#8 272VGD.

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 05:03 PM

Don't bother, bin there allready Edwin.
The abzeichen you found was just a few miles south of it.

I will make some pictures after cleaning the items as soon as possible.
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#9 Skipper

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:13 PM

Take your time with the cleaning: you must be squatting the sink big time! I hope people still can enter the bathroom or garden!

Vorsicht+Feind.JPG


#10 Slipdigit

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:28 PM

Go to Google Earth
Roughly a line from 50 25 50.15 to 50 25 33.89

Are these maps helpful?


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Best Regards,  
JW :slipdigit:

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#11 272VGD.

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:01 PM

Nice maps... but I have these on 1:20.000 scale...
The region you mention is the Hollerather Knee, Dreiherrenwald etc.
I think your making a mistake, the 2nd ID was located a few miles north, between Rocherath and Losheimer the 99th ID was located.

But.... many guys have searched in that area... me included.


Here some pictures after the first item is cleaned.

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Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#12 Slipdigit

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:13 PM

The 23rd IR of the 2nd ID, minus one battalion, was attached to the 99th ID in an effort to hold the Twin Villages open to allow the remainder of the 2nd ID to pass through to Elsenborne Ridge.

This man earned the Medal of Honor the area I was describing.
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http://en.wikipedia....i/Jose_M._Lopez

Charles MacDonald penned a book about his experiences as a Company Commander in 23rd Infantry Regiment. He wrote of his company's action holding this area. It is a good book, I read it last month.

http://kalapanapundi...-commander.html

Edited by SlipdigitBK, 19 June 2008 - 08:30 PM.

Best Regards,  
JW :slipdigit:

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#13 272VGD.

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:46 PM

Yes, but the 2nd, wasn't in Krinkelt, Rocherath.. the 99th did. And indeed just a few miles north to Elsenborn/Wahlerscheid the 2nd was attachted to the 99th...
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#14 krieg

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:12 PM

a great find there mate make the collection look really great
thankyou for showing us your goot time well done mate
cheers krieg:D
for thow . will be ours someday.we shall have it all
.:ww1ace:.. und mear...:snoopy:....

#15 Slipdigit

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:52 AM

Yes, but the 2nd, wasn't in Krinkelt, Rocherath.. the 99th did. And indeed just a few miles north to Elsenborn/Wahlerscheid the 2nd was attachted to the 99th...

I can only go with where Charles MacDonald said he was and by the maps in his book, which are almost identical to ones I provided below. On the map below entitled Defense of Krinkelt, the position labeled "McKinley's Battalion" was the 3rd Battalion of the 23rd Infantry of the 2nd ID and was on the extreme right of the line, with King and Love Companies swinging south across the two roads going into the Twin Villages. Charles McDonald was CO of Item Coy in that battalion. He spent the better part of two chapters in his book describing the fighting east of Krinkelt and Rocherath and his subsequent retreat through those two towns, along with the scattered remains of his company intermingled with the the 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 23rd.

By and large the 2nd ID was to the north involved in the opening moves to take the Roer Dams and were supplied by only one road and it passed through the Twin Villages. The 23rd IR was the reserve for this effort and thus not committed forward. When the Germans poured out of Loshiem, headed for Elsenborn, the 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 23rd IR/2nd ID were temporarily attached to the 99th ID and trucked to the woods east of the Twin Villages in the successful attempt to hold open the road from the Northeast through Rocherath/Kinkelt and on west so that the remainder of the 2nd ID could disengage from their attack and set up a defense west of Krinkelt. The 2nd ID also used a corduroy road further to the north that the engineers had built "just in case."

So, while on the maps, the 2nd ID did not appear to be involved in the defense of Krinkelt and Rocherath because it's HQ and two of it's regiments and one battalion from the 23rd IR were transitting to the west of the Rocherath, nearly 1/4 of the 2nd ID's infantry was involved in the fight while attached to the 99th.

Best Regards,  
JW :slipdigit:

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#16 Skipper

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:43 PM

You did a great cleaning job and turned the relics into really nice collector items. It must have taken quite some time to remove the rust without breaking or scratching anything.

Vorsicht+Feind.JPG


#17 pegasus

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 05:57 PM

Ed, execellent finds and in very good condition

Just goes to show, theres still plenty of good stuff out there just waiting to be found

Was the sprots badge near the mg tin
What manner of men are these who wear the Red Beret ?Their duty lies in the van of battle.They are in fact men apart Every man an Emperor.
Field Marshal Montgomery

Neil :sniper:

#18 jagdpanther44

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 07:08 PM

To show how the bolt and spring assemblies fit, here are some photos of the ones in my MG.

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Edited by jagdpanther44, 20 June 2008 - 11:50 PM.

Regards
John

"It is always wise to look ahead, but difficult to look further than you can see" - Winston Churchill

#19 Slipdigit

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 07:33 PM

That is an interesting looking spring. A twisted coil.

Best Regards,  
JW :slipdigit:

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#20 Aru-Ed

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:52 PM

Ed, execellent finds and in very good condition

Just goes to show, theres still plenty of good stuff out there just waiting to be found

Was the sprots badge near the mg tin


No those 2 items where found at different spots.
Many miles a part!

#21 Aru-Ed

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:54 PM

To show how the bolt and spring assemblies fit, here are some photos of the ones in my MG.


Thanks for these pictures, looks great by the way!

#22 Aru-Ed

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:56 PM

Go to Google Earth
Roughly a line from 50 25 50.15 to 50 25 33.89

Are these maps helpful?


Thanks for the maps Slip!
Maybe i can use them.

#23 chrish

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 06:55 PM

great finds guys
whens the next big hunt?

#24 272VGD.

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:39 PM

After opening the small box...

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Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...

#25 272VGD.

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:40 PM

great finds guys
whens the next big hunt?


Next weekend I'm in the woods again.:cool:
Eine Lichtung im Walde wo die Sonne scheint.
Eingeschlossen durch Bäume sind wir gefangen,
in dieser Lichtung Gottes...




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