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Russia Attacks Georgia

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#1 texson66

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:08 PM

"
TBILISI, Russia (AFP) — Georgia's National Security Council on Friday warned that Moscow and Tbilisi will be in "a state of war" if reports of Russian tanks, military trucks and troops entering South Ossetia prove true.
"If it's true that Russian troops and armaments have been sent to Georgia, it means that we are in a state of war with Russia," Alexander Lomaia, secretary of the security council, told AFP.
The warning was issued as dozens of Russian tanks, trucks and troops were seen by an AFP reporter Friday heading towards South Ossetia, travelling through the Russian province of North Ossetia."


I have a bad feeling about this....There were US forces in Georgia at one time
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#2 texson66

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:11 PM

In the last hour there is video of artillery and rocket fire between Russian and Georgian forces....
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#3 Mussolini

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:41 PM

Link to such Video?

I remember reading something about this in the news a while ago, with Georgias claim on South Olessia or something. Apparently Gerogia has moved in and Russia has mobilized its forces too.

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#4 texson66

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:35 PM

Muss,
The 7 am Fox news did lead with that story and video of the battle. I'll see if I find a video link. Heres a story link: FOXNews.com - Russian Army Moving Against Georgian Forces Controlling Capital of Breakaway Province South Ossetia - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
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#5 Mussolini

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:45 PM

Yeah. Found some videos of the news on Youtube.

Russia has no right going in there. The territory is part of Georgia and they are attempting to reclaim. Power-hungry Russians...

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#6 JTF-2

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 04:08 PM

From what I understood South Olessia has a lot of Russians living there. And that Russia is saying that they are moving in to stop the killing of Russian cillvilians?

Not sure
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#7 Mussolini

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 04:11 PM

Sounds kinda like Hitler wanting all the Volk under one banner.

I'm sure a lot of Georgians are Russian citizens themselves. Still, its no excuse for the Russians to bomb some Georgian Villages. The Georgian Army is reclaiming the territory, not performing ethnic cleansing. The Separatists have their own army, so yeah, people are going to die. A lot less if the Russians backed out.

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#8 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:26 PM

LOL I agree .Perhaps they learnd this from Hitler and others.
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#9 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:43 PM

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#10 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:45 PM

Georgia says Russian aircraft bombed its air bases
By MUSA SADULAYEV, Associated Press Writer 6 minutes ago


DZHAVA, Georgia - Russia sent columns of tanks and reportedly bombed Georgian air bases Friday after Georgia launched a major military offensive Friday to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia, threatening to ignite a broader conflict.
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Hundreds of civilians were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won defacto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Witnesses said the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was devastated.
"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. "It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."
The fighting broke out as much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were in Beijing.
The timing suggests Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia — a key to his hold on power.
Saakashvili agreed the timing was not coincidental, but accused Russia of being the aggressor. "Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he said in an interview with CNN. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country."
Diplomats called for another emergency session of the United Nations Security Council, its second since early Friday morning seeking to prevent an all-out war.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had spoken to the parties involved and was working to end the fighting, State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos told reporters.
Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili told CNN that the troops would be called home Saturday in the face of the South Ossetia fighting.
Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.
The U.N. refugee agency said Friday that hundreds were fleeing the fighting in South Ossetia and seeking safety elsewhere in Georgia or neighboring Russia.
The leader of South Ossetia's rebel government, Eduard Kokoity, said about 1,400 people were killed in the onslaught, the Interfax news agency reported. The toll could not be independently confirmed.
Ten Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces but Georgia alleges they back the separatists.
Georgia's Foreign Ministry accused Russian aircraft of bombing two military air bases inside Georgia, inflicting some casualties and destroying several military aircraft. Rustavi 2 television said four people were killed and five wounded at the Marneuli air base.
Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending reinforcements for its peacekeepers, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said.
The International Committee of the Red Cross, citing local medical officials, said that Tskhinvali's main hospital had closed down after coming under fire from artillery.
Water, electricity and telephone lines in the city also have been cut off, ICRC spokeswoman Maia Kardava said by telephone from the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.

Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili said government troops were now in full control of Tskhinvali, but the RIA-Novosti news agency quoted Konashenkov as saying late Friday that Russian tanks were firing on Georgian positions in the city.
"We are facing Russian aggression," said Georgia's Security Council chief Kakha Lomaya. "They have sent in their troops and weapons and they are bombing our towns."
Putin has warned that the Georgian attack will draw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.
Chairing a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev also vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.
"In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished."
On Friday, an AP reporter saw tanks and other heavy weapons concentrating on the Russian side of the border with South Ossetia — supporting the reports of an incursion. Some villagers were fleeing into Russia.
"I saw them (the Georgians) shelling my village," said Maria, who gave only her first name. She said she and other villagers spent the night in a field and then fled toward the Russian border as the fighting escalated.
Yakobashvili said Georgian forces had shot down four Russian combat planes over Georgian territory but gave no details. Russia's Defense Ministry denied an earlier Georgia report about one Russian plane downed and had no immediate comment on the latest claim.
Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt.
More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain.
South Ossetia officials said Georgia attacked with aircraft, armor and heavy artillery. Georgian troops fired missiles at Tskhinvali, an official said, and many buildings were on fire.
Georgia's president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.
A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.
Russia's Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure." "Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site.
Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and built up ties with Moscow.
Relations between Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushed to join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces to Abkhazia.
The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict. Georgian officials later blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by shelling Georgian villages in the area.

Georgia says Russian aircraft bombed its air bases - Yahoo! News
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#11 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:33 AM

South Ossetia fighting risks wider war
By MUSA SADULAYEV, Associated Press Writer 47 minutes ago


DZHAVA, Georgia - Russia sent an armored column into the breakaway enclave of South Ossetia after Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, launched an offensive to crush separatists. Georgia reported early Saturday that warplanes attacked three of its bases and some key oil facilities.
Witnesses said hundreds of civilians have died in the fighting, which threatened to ignite a wider war between Georgia and Russia and escalate tensions between Moscow and Washington.
Georgia said it was forced to launch the assault because of rebel attacks; the separatists alleged Georgia violated a cease-fire.
The South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was reportedly devastated. Ossetia spokeswoman Irina Gagloyeva said the city came under prolonged fire during the night "but it was suppressed" by the armed forces, the Interfax news agency quoted her as saying Saturday.
"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. "It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."
The fighting broke out as much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were in Beijing.
The timing suggested Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia — a key to his hold on power. The rebels seek to unite with North Ossetia, which is part of Russia.
Saakashvili agreed the timing was not coincidental, but accused Russia of being the aggressor. "Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he told CNN. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country."
Seeking to prevent an all-out war, diplomats issued a flurry of statements calling on both sides to halt the fighting. The U.N. Security Council held two tense emergency sessions 12 hours apart with both sides using the forum to launch accusations. As the meeting recessed, officials promised a third council session Saturday.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice urged Russia to halt aircraft and missile attacks and withdraw combat forces from Georgian territory. Rice said in a statement the United States wants Russia to respect Georgian sovereignty and agree to international mediation.
The leader of South Ossetia's rebel government, Eduard Kokoity, said about 1,400 people were killed in the onslaught, the Interfax news agency reported. The toll could not be independently confirmed.
As night fell, there were conflicting claims as to who held the battlefield advantage.
Saakashvili said "Georgian military forces completely control all the territory of South Ossetia" except for a northern section adjacent to Russia. But Russian news agencies cited a Russian military official as saying heavy fighting was under way on the outskirts of the regional capital.
Early Saturday, Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said the Vaziani military base on the outskirts of the Georgian capital was bombed by warplanes during the night and that bombs fell in the area of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline. He also said two other Georgian military bases were hit and that warplanes bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.
Utiashvili said there apparently were significant casualties and damage in the attacks, but that further details would not be known until the morning.
Earlier, Georgia's Foreign Ministry accused Russian aircraft of bombing two military air bases, inflicting some casualties and destroying several military aircraft. Rustavi 2 television said four people were killed and five wounded at the Marneuli air base.
Twelve Russian troops were killed and 30 wounded in the fighting, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Saakashvili said late Friday that about 30 Georgians had been killed "mainly members of the Georgian armed forces."

It was unclear what might persuade either side to stop shooting. Both claim the battle started after the other side violated a cease-fire that had been declared just hours earlier after a week of sporadic clashes.
The United States was sending in its top Caucasus envoy, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Bryza, to try to end the bloodshed.
It was the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Russian troops went in as peacekeepers but Georgia alleges they now back the separatists.
Russia, which has granted citizenship to most of the region's residents, appeared to lay much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington.
In a telephone conversation with Rice, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Georgia must be convinced to withdraw its forces, according to a ministry statement.
Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.
Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow.
Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili told CNN the troops would be called home Saturday in the face of the South Ossetia fighting.
A senior U.S. defense official said Georgian authorities have asked the United States for help getting their troops out of Iraq. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the discussions have been private, said no formal decision has been made on whether to support the departure, but said it is likely the U.S. will do so.
Also, Pentagon officials said Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has reached out to his counterparts in Russia and Georgia, but has not yet connected with them.
Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending in reinforcements for its troops in the province, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said.
Putin warned in the early stages of the conflict that the Georgian attack would draw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.
Chairing a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev also vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.
"In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished."
On Friday, an AP reporter saw tanks and other heavy weapons concentrating on the Russian side of the border with South Ossetia — supporting the reports of an incursion. Some villagers were fleeing into Russia.
The Georgian state minister for reintegration, Temur Yakobashvili, said Georgian forces had shot down four Russian combat planes over Georgian territory but gave no details. Russia's Defense Ministry denied an earlier Georgia report about one Russian plane downed and had no immediate comment on the latest claim.
Yakobashvili said one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt. More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops.
South Ossetia officials said Georgia attacked with aircraft, armor and heavy artillery. Georgian troops fired missiles at Tskhinvali, an official said, and many buildings were on fire.
Georgia's president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.
A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.
The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict. Georgian officials later blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by shelling Georgian villages in the area.

South Ossetia fighting risks wider war - Yahoo! News
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#12 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:35 AM

Posted Image

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#13 Herr Oberst

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:55 AM

Russia has no right going in there. The territory is part of Georgia and they are attempting to reclaim. Power-hungry Russians...


That's like saying Croatia and Bosnia are part of Yugoslavia or Serbia.

The Ossetians and the Georgians are not the same ethnic people and dislike each other as much as the Ukrainians and Russians.

I am curious about this escalated event. Please tell us what sources are bringing you to this conclusion.

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......BMD's, BMP's, a whole lotta reactive armor on those T-90s and some SP Arty....MRLSs Reminds me of Chechnya, Afghanistahn..... must not be too worried about OPFOR air to put on a parade like that. Wonder what the driver of that maroon car was thinking.....;)
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From what I understood South Ossetia has a lot of Russians living there. And that Russia is saying that they are moving in to stop the killing of Russian cillvilians?


There is evidence of Chechen Mercs that have been operating in the area and I don't buy the Hitler argument which is amateur analysis.

It is good that Georgia is not part of NATO.

More likely this is an extension of the Chechen conflict with this part of the world having a similar violent past to that of Yugoslavia.

Edited by Herr Oberst, 09 August 2008 - 06:38 AM.

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#14 Soviet man

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:38 AM

We go there as military force and they attacked us first! They can't attacked us! I know that 15 our soldiers died there and many piceful citizens! Georgia must pay for this!

#15 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:54 AM

Posted Image
S.Ossetia 'liberated' from Georgian attack: Russia


by Amelie Herenstein 14 minutes ago


JAVA, Georgia (AFP) - The Russian army said Saturday it had taken the South Ossetian capital after sending in tanks and troops to fight off a Georgian offensive aimed at winning back the breakaway province.
As the conflict which has left hundreds dead escalated, Russian warplanes bombed and virtually destroyed a key Georgian port and hit another city.
The Russian army announced it had "liberated" the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali after more fierce fighting around the city, which Georgian and South Ossetian forces had both previously claimed to control.
"Tactical battalions have completely liberated Tskhinvali from Georgian military forces," General Vladimir Boldyrev, the head of Russia's ground forces, was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies after paratroopers were airlifted into the city.
Russia backs the separatist government and sent in troops on Friday in response to the pro-West Georgia's military campaign to reestablish control over the province which broke away in the early 1990s.
The South Ossetian government said more than 1,600 people have been killed in the fighting which has heightened international fears of a return to the wars of the 1990s in the Caucusus.
The United States and the European Union prepared a joint a delegation to seek a ceasefire but Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev said his country had launched a military operation "to force the Georgian side into peace."
Georgia said a Russian aerial bombardment had "completely devastated" the Black Sea port of Poti in attacks which the country's UN ambassador likened to "a full-scale military invasion".
Poti is a key port and staging post for moving oil and other energy from the Caspian Sea to the West.
Russian warplanes also bombed the Georgian city of Gori, killing civilians, Georgia's Public TV reported.
Georgian officials said Russian planes on Friday bombed near a military base in Vaziani, a military airport in Marneuli, and a railway junction and an airport in Senaki. There was no immediate reaction from Russian forces.
Russia has denied Georgian claims that it had shot down six Russian planes.
Russian tanks and troops rolled into the province on Friday in response to Georgia's offensive to regaining control over the province that broke away from Tbilisi in the early 1990s.
As the troop build-up and clashes intensified, a senior military official said Georgia planned to pull its entire 2,000-strong military contingent from Iraq within the next three days.
"We are actually in the stage of preparing our departure," Colonel Bondo Maisuradze, chief of Georgia's military operations in Iraq, told AFP.
The South Ossetian government reported a mounting toll from the fighting. Spokeswoman Irina Gagloyeva told Russia's Interfax news agency there were now 1,600 dead in Tskhinvali alone.
Georgia has only confirmed 30 dead amongst its forces while Russia says three more troops were killed Saturday taking its toll to 15.

The Russian leader held a new emergency meeting on the conflict at the Kremlin.
"Our peacekeepers and units subordinate to them are now carrying out an operation to force the Georgian side to peace," Medvedev was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies.
In the streets of Tskhinvali, home to an estimated 20,000 people, tanks were seen burning, and women and children ran for cover.
An AFP reporter in South Ossetia saw women, children and elderly people riding buses toward the Russian border, fleeing the fighting.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said hospitals in Tskhinvali were overflowing with casualties.
Georgian authorities denied reports that President Mikheil Saaksashvili had evacuated government buildings in Tbilisi and was preparing to introduce martial law.
On the diplomatic front, the United States -- a champion of Georgia's bid to join NATO -- called for an immediate ceasefire and Russian withdrawal.
"We call on Russia to cease attacks on Georgia by aircraft and missiles, respect Georgia's territorial integrity, and withdraw its ground combat forces from Georgian soil," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a statement.
The European Union and NATO also called for a halt to hostilities.
The UN Security Council was to meet again Saturday to agree on a call for an immediate ceasefire after talks failed Friday.
Television images showed Russian tanks, armoured personnel carriers and trucks rumbling towards South Ossetia -- plus Georgian ground forces hammering rebel positions with lorry-mounted rockets.
South Ossetia broke from Georgia in the early 1990s. It has since been a constant source of friction between Georgia and Russia, which opposes Tbilisi's aspirations of joining NATO and has supported the separatists without recognising their independence.
South Ossetia has long sought unification with North Ossetia, which is inhabited by the same Ossetian ethnic group but ended up across the border in Russia after the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union. In the pro-Russian South Ossetian stronghold of Java, hundreds of volunteers gathered to volunteer to fight the Georgians.

S.Ossetia 'liberated' from Georgian attack: Russia - Yahoo! News
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#16 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:57 AM

Georgia | 08.08.2008

Analysis: South Ossetian Conflict Will Cost Russia Dearly


Posted Image Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Russian President Medvedev says he has to protect Russian citizens in South Ossetia


The escalating conflict between Georgia and Russia over the former's breakaway province South Ossetia has far-reaching consequences and might become a major problem for Moscow, according to experts.


Full-fledged fighting raged in Georgia's separatist region of South Ossetia on Friday, Aug. 8, making short shrift of an Olympic peace set to blanket the opening ceremonies in Beijing.

Russia's premier Vladimir Putin and US President George W Bush, arranged on different sides of the conflict, spoke with "one voice," according to Putin. "Everybody agrees -- nobody wants to see a war," the Russian leader said.

But such words fell flat as pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili, a close US ally, ordered a full-scale mobilization to re-take the separatist region and Russia deployed troops and fighter jets to "protect its citizens" against Georgia's "dirty venture."

Posted ImageBildunterschrift:

Georgia, on the Black Sea coast between Turkey and Russia, was under Moscow's rule in their two centuries of shared Soviet history, but this influence has been challenged by the United States which is trying to win a foothold in the strategic Caucasus region.

Pretenses of Russian-mediated peace talks scheduled on Thursday dissipated in the face of the spiraling fighting and analysts seemed tragically unsurprised to see tension derail to war.

"They have been shooting at each other for months and for a military analyst like me, it was inevitable," Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent Moscow-based analyst, told DPA news agency.

"South Ossetia has been routed, that's clear," he said. "Now it will be a difficult war between Russia and Georgian forces with South Ossetia taking a secondary role."

After Russian media reported at least 10 of its peacekeepers dead in the fighting, state-owned Channel One television showed images of long Russian military convoys moving across into the mountainous South Caucasus.

Rhetorical collateral

The roughly 70,000 South Ossetians and residents in Georgia's other rebel region of Abkhazia, who aspire to re-unification with Russia, became an irrevocable part of Kremlin foreign policy since the beginning of this year, used as rhetorical collateral in Russia's disagreements with the West.

With Kosovo's independence in February, Russian opposition took the form of a threat that its example would provoke a "domino effect" in the Caucasus.

This fear was no less present in Georgia, which has not recognized Kosovo's western-supported independence, and Moscow's line served to amplify separatist claims in the region.

Controversial NATO bid

Posted ImageBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili wants to protect Georgia's territorial integrity
Saakashvili has made re-asserting control over the rebel regions a priority of his presidency, as part of a concerted policy for rapprochement with the West focused in a bid to join NATO in April.

Then-President Putin projected NATO's eastward expansion as a menacing betrayal and perpetuation of Western containment policy, but Moscow's key argument ran contra: That NATO membership would re-ignite civil war against Tbilisi's control.

Had Tbilisi become a NATO member, the alliance would be obliged to protect it militarily, pitting Western alliance troops against Russian fighters -- a fact that did not escape European diplomats who voted to delay Georgian membership in the alliance despite Bush's personal backing of the bid.

Dangerous double game

But analysts point out that Russian policy was not all war-mongering, and Moscow, having lost a dangerous political double game, may find itself trapped in a war that, if prolonged, could prove immensely costly. Just before April, Russia ended a 16-month blockade and resumed air and postal links to Georgia, holding out the possibility of dropping economic sanctions as well.

Russia's special envoy Yuri Popov arrived in Tbilisi to mediate peace talks between the two sides on Thursday, even as the fighting escalated out of control with both sides returning heavy artillery shelling and making bomber sorties with Sukhoi SU-27 fighter jets.

Now, Felgenhauer said, Russia has made a choice that will drag it into a prolonged and difficult war because mountains form a barrier between the region and Russia, leaving only a one-road pass, closed off in the winter.

"It's a logistical nightmare to try to take South Ossetia back from Georgia's quite good military," Felgenhauer said. "Massive Russian intervention may turn out to be costly, not only in terms of human costs ... it could be politically devastating for Russia's standing and economy."

Russian-Western rift likely

Georgia, whose army numbers around 18,000 soldiers, had surrounded the South Ossetia capital on Friday.

Such a war could swiftly create a political rift between Russia and the West, whose support remains with Georgia for the present, other Russian observers said.

The United States sent its envoy to the region on Friday.

"We support Georgia's territorial integrity and we call for an immediate ceasefire," State Department spokesperson Amanda Harper told DPA.

Analysis: South Ossetian Conflict Will Cost Russia Dearly | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 08.08.2008
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#17 Mortman2004

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:04 AM

OK Soviet man made a valid point if they did kill 15 russian soldiers.. I Say tear theyre asses up,,, But why is it when 3000 American civilains are killed and we go out for blood were bad guys?.... and if soviet man is right HEy paybacks a bitch
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#18 Mibo

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:15 AM

Umm, the Russians have been deemed "bad guys" already, by your country!

I read somewhere that almost half of the people of South-Ossetia have a Russian Passport, and Russia sees the need to protect its own people. And they are of different ethnic then Georgians definitely.

And that South-Ossetia is trying to become part of North-Ossetia, or become it´s own country (there is probably one word for 'becoming its own country", but i forgot it...:D) and this war may provide them the means to do just that. Only time will show how big this will grow, hopefully not too big, the beginning of a second cold war anyone?
“It is well that war is so terrible, or we should get too fond of it.”

#19 Za Rodinu

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:37 AM

Badly drawn frontiers with the wrong populations on the wrong side of the border sometimes tend to do this. Pretty common occurence, isn't it?

Now if we could get the Spanish army to look the other way, say a little war with France over the Roussillon again, perhaps we could liberate Galicia, where the dialect is more Portagee than Castillano... ;)

Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra...


#20 Mussolini

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 12:16 PM

The Georgian accuse the Russian Army of collaborating with the Ossetians. Still, if Russia was truly acting in that peace-keeper mentality, why are they bombing port cities etc? That seems a little excessive...

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#21 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:48 PM

Russian troops raid Georgian town; scores dead
By MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI, Associated Press Writer 40 minutes ago


GORI, Georgia - Russia sent hundreds of tanks and troops into the separatist province of South Ossetia and bombed Georgian towns Saturday in a major escalation of the conflict that has left scores of civilians dead and wounded.
http://us.bc.yahoo.c...C/B=5293358/V=1
Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally that borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, launched a major offensive Friday to retake control of breakaway South Ossetia. Russia, which has close ties to the province and posts peacekeepers there, responded by sending in armed convoys and military combat aircraft.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters in Moscow that some 1,500 people have been killed, with the death toll rising Saturday.
The figure could not be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the fighting said hundreds of civilians had probably died. They said most of the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, was in ruins, with bodies lying everywhere.
The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased, looking for supplies.
Russian Gen. Vladimir Boldyrev claimed in televised comments Saturday that Russian troops had driven Georgian forces out of the provincial capital. Witnesses confirmed that there was no sign of Georgian soldiers in the streets.
"Georgia is facing Russia's military aggression," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said, noting that Russian forces were attacking areas outside South Ossetia. "Georgian authorities support a cease-fire and separation of the warring parties."
As part of Saakashvili's proposal, Georgian troops were pulled out of Tskhinvali and had been ordered to stop responding to Russian shelling, said Alexander Lomaia, secretary of his Security Council. Russia did not immediately respond to Saakashvili's proposal.
Russian military aircraft also bombed the Georgian town of Gori on Saturday. An Associated Press reporter who visited Gori shortly afterward saw several apartment buildings in ruins, some still on fire, and scores of dead bodies and bloodied civilians. The elderly, women and children were among the victims.
It is the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992.
The fighting threatens to ignite a wider war between Russia and Georgia, which accused Russia of bombing its towns, ports and air bases. Georgia, a former Soviet republic with ambitions of joining NATO, has asked the international community to help end what it called Russian aggression.
It also likely will increase tensions between Moscow and Washington, which Lavrov said should bear part of the blame for arming and training Georgian soldiers.
Moscow has said it needs to protect its peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia, most of whom have been given Russian passports. Ethnic Ossetians live in the breakaway Georgian province and in the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.
Russia's ambassador to NATO said his country is not at war, saying "our actions are limited by time, region and purpose."
"We take the view that NATO is not involved in the conflict," Dmitry Rogozin, told reporters in Brussels, accusing Saakashvili of trying to "internationalize" the South Ossetian conflict.
Rogozin said that Georgia's president "cannot imagine what it would be like to be at war with Russia."
Meanwhile, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin traveled to a region that neighbors Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia, according to Russian news reports.

Putin is to chair a meeting in Vladikavkaz, the provincial capital of the region of North Ossetia that neighbors the separatist Georgian province, to coordinate assistance to refugees who fled South Ossetia into the neighboring Russian region.
Lomaia said there had been direct fighting between Russian and Georgian soldiers on the streets of Tskhinvali. He estimated that Russia sent 2,500 troops into Georgia. The Russian military has not said how many of its troops were deployed.
Overnight, Russian warplanes bombed the Vaziani military base on the outskirts of the Georgian capital and near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said. He also said two other military bases were hit, and that warplanes bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.
Georgia, meanwhile, said it had shot down 10 Russian planes, including four brought down Saturday, according to Kakha Lomaya, head of Georgia's Security Council.
Russian military commanders said 15 peacekeepers had been killed and about 150 wounded. Russian troops went in as peacekeepers but Georgia alleges they now back the separatists.
Russian military spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov accused Georgian troops of killing and wounded Russian peacekeepers when they seized Russian checkpoints. Konashenkov's allegations couldn't be independently confirmed Saturday.
Russia's foreign minister said that Georgia brought the airstrikes upon itself by bombing civilians and Russian peacekeepers, and warned that the small Caucasus country should expect more attacks.
"Whatever side is used to bomb civilians and the positions of peacekeepers, this side is not safe and they should know this," Lavrov said.
Asked whether Russia could bomb the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, Lavrov answered: "I don't think the bombing is coming from Tbilisi, but whatever part of Georgia is used for this aggression is not safe."
It was unclear what might persuade either side to stop shooting. Both claim the battle started after the other side violated a cease-fire that had been declared just hours earlier after a week of sporadic clashes.
Diplomats have issued a flurry of statements calling on both sides to halt the fighting and called for another emergency session of the U.N. Security Council, its second since early Friday morning seeking to prevent an all-out war.
President Bush said Saturday the outbreak of fighting is endangering peace throughout the volatile region, and he urged an end to the deadly outbreak of violence.
"I'm deeply concerned about the situation in Georgia," Bush said in a statement to reporters while attending the Olympics in Beijing. "The attacks are occurring in regions of Georgia far from the zone of conflict in South Ossetia. They mark a dangerous escalation in the crisis.
"The violence is endangering regional peace, civilian lives have been lost and others are endangered. We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings, and a return by the parties to the status quo of Aug. 6."
Russia, which has granted citizenship to most of the region's residents, appeared to lay much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington.
Georgia was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.
Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, a U.S.-educated lawyer, long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili has called them home in the face of the South Ossetia fighting. The Georgian commander of the brigade in Iraq said Saturday they would leave as soon as transport can be arranged.

Russian troops raid Georgian town; scores dead - Yahoo! News
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#22 Mortman2004

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:58 PM

The US is condeming this For one big region in my mind THE oil pipeline running thru the region...
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#23 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 05:01 PM

"Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, a U.S.-educated lawyer, long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili has called them home in the face of the South Ossetia fighting. The Georgian commander of the brigade in Iraq said Saturday they would leave as soon as transport can be arranged. "

This isn't gonna be liked either.

Edited by JCFalkenbergIII, 09 August 2008 - 06:45 PM.

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#24 C.Evans

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:22 PM

I heard about this on trhe evening news just last night. It smells fishy to me about WHY those 15 russian soldiers were killed to begin with? Simply put, whomever killed tham probably looked at it as an invasion of sorts and they tried to keep the invaders off their land-which is very much akin to how many Southern folks felt when they the Northerners tried to tell the Southerners how to live. Just a wild guess and not my opinion.

The below IS my opinion:

I always thought ol ""Uncle Vlad" was getting too restless and needed something to do as it should be wide-known by now that Uncle Vlad, is trying to do what he can to create another Soviet Union-by whatever means-as well as possibly restarting communism. Anyway, I have never liked or trusted that slimeball. Once a scumball, always a scumball.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#25 machine shop tom

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:48 PM

The US is condeming this For one big region in my mind THE oil pipeline running thru the region...


The U.S. doesn't benefit in any way no matter WHO controls the oil pipeline. Moot argument.

tom
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