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Baseball Invented in England!!!!


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#1 dgmitchell

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 10:55 PM

This article made me throw up in my mouth just a bit. Somethings should just never be suggested. Sacrilege!!

Diary entry may offer proof that baseball came from England - MLB - SI.com

#2 WotNoChad?

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 02:58 AM

Well we've invented some of the best things known to man, woman or beast.

Inventing the USA was one of finest endeavours though. :D

cheers,
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#3 dgmitchell

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 10:08 AM

Well we've invented some of the best things known to man, woman or beast.

Inventing the USA was one of finest endeavours though. :D

cheers,


I cannot argue with that and, truth be told, I am a bit of an Anglophile. Indeed, my Mum was born and grew up on the British Channel Islands. That said, if baseball is not American, I just don't know anything anymore!

#4 texson66

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 12:17 PM

Too bad he didnt describe the game of "base ball" in his entry. Well, if the English played it, we "refined" it!:D Cheers!
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#5 PzJgr

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 12:47 PM

Do the British even play the game. I don't recall ever seeing it played when I was there in the 80's.
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#6 redcoat

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 01:04 PM

Do the British even play the game. I don't recall ever seeing it played when I was there in the 80's.

There are a few amateur clubs in the major cities, and US baseball is shown on one of the smaller TV channels after midnight, but it is very much a minority sport.
if in doubt....Panic!!!!

#7 Von Poop

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 01:12 PM

Mildly puzzled and suspect there's no real 'discovery' here... as I always thought Stoolball the progenitor of all these stick & ball games.
It predates 1755 by a long way (and was certainly still widespread in the 17th century.) :
National Stoolball Association - play the game of stoolball
Stool ball: a medieval baseball game
The game was associated with Easter too, so I wonder if that's what Bray refers to in his diary?
Seems more likely, particularly as he was apparently playing 'mixed'.

It's not a bad game if played with the batter standing on the 'stool'... once you've established the "No edged weapons except by prior agreement" rule. ;)

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#8 Von Poop

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 02:43 PM

30 seconds of googling reveals an 11 years older reference than Bray's to 'base ball' from 1744, possibly referring to early Rounders:
National Rounders Association:- Home
A gentrified and refined form of stoolball, which is certainly one step closer to the American game.

Edited by Von Poop, 12 September 2008 - 02:50 PM.

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#9 WotNoChad?

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 10:14 PM

I cannot argue with that and, truth be told, I am a bit of an Anglophile. Indeed, my Mum was born and grew up on the British Channel Islands. That said, if baseball is not American, I just don't know anything anymore!


I wouldn't worry about it mate, there's plenty of things which have become US icons which originated elsewhere, and plenty of UK icons which came from further afield too. Curry is a good example here, most popular dish nationally, the only local development being the sauce for a chicken tikka masala and nasty things like cheese naan.

I think it's a good and healthy sign, nations being open to new things and all. The time to worry is should you find yourself in a society which is the same as it ever was, or Belgium.

Do the British even play the game. I don't recall ever seeing it played when I was there in the 80's.


I think the most popular form is rounders, typically played in junior schools.
Personally prefer cricket of course, surprised it hasn't taken off there, although I have heard of some matches and even read a match report (Eng Expats v RoW in California) featuring "Cheech" Marin who's a fearless batsman.

cheers,

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#10 redcoat

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 10:48 PM

In Jane Austen's novel Northanger Abbey, in the first chapter the young heroine is described as preferring "cricket, baseball, riding on horseback and running about the country to books". ;)
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#11 GPRegt

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 08:36 AM

Bit of history here.

Steve W.

#12 Slipdigit

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 03:27 PM

There's no way that baseball, a game that involves a lot of standing around doing nothing, could have been invented in England...wait, let me think about that some more.:D:D:D:D

Best Regards,  
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#13 dgmitchell

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 04:25 PM

There's no way that baseball, a game that involves a lot of standing around doing nothing, could have been invented in England...wait, let me think about that some more.:D:D:D:D


You are so right. Baseball must have originated in Washington DC . . . .;)

#14 Kruska

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 05:25 PM

well, finally some people start to recognize this game being as thriling as cricket :D

Regards
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#15 Sloniksp

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 06:13 PM

My favorite play...
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#16 Slipdigit

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:15 AM

well, finally some people start to recognize this game being as thriling as cricket :D

Regards
Kruska


Well, actually it is quite enjoyable to play, I just hate to watch it. I played from the 2nd grade up until I finished HS and loved every minute of it. The only games I like to watch are those that involve 5, 6 or 7 years olds.
:D

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#17 WotNoChad?

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:38 AM

You're both missing the point of cricket as spectator sport. Imagine a game which starts at around ten, finishes around five, lasts for five days and has a nearby bar for the entirity of it.

Edited by WotNoChad?, 25 September 2008 - 05:44 PM.

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#18 bigfun

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:24 PM

makes sense to me, we steal all your TV shows too!
Scott :flag_USA_ww2: :flag_netherlands:

#19 brndirt1

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:17 PM

Oh please, similar games were played all over Europe. Both before Rounders was played in Briton, or Town Ball was played in America. None had too much in common with BASEBALL as played worldwide today. They were all games involving "bases, balls, and striking sticks". But from that point on they are all weird as hell.

And let us not forget about "Town Ball", a game which is a cousin of baseball, and both were evolving at that time in Ameria. In this game a ball is pitched; batters try to hit it with an ax handle or some other piece of wood; runs are scored. But it ain't baseball.

To get runners out, you throw the ball at them. And it's one out per inning, not three. Instead of bases there are poles, there was no such thing as a foul ball, for instance, so every little foul tip was occasion for much scurrying.

A referee, as the official was then called, sits in a chair in the middle of the infield, watching for rule violations and issuing fines to players who commit them.

Here is a link to the 1854 "Town Ball" rules, but as the name implies the rules for each "town" could easily vary:

Town Ball Rules of 1854

And here is another even more interesting link to the game as adopted on the North American landmass, including Canada:

Description and Rules of Townball

And here is one to the 11th Century!:

SABR UK: Early bat and ball games

which describes "stick, base, and ball" games. While they are all "stick/bat, base, and ball" games, and are the forms from which American Baseball evolved, they are certainly NOT BASEBALL as it is played and has been played since 1870 in America, and actually worldwide.

In these games the players run clockwise, must hit the runner with the ball to put him out after a "hit" (thrown or touching), no foul balls, cannot leave the "base, fort, sanctuary" until another "hit" is had. Ya take your hand off the post and you are "out".

Doesn’t sound much like BASEBALL does it?

Happy Trails,
Clint.

#20 A-58

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:24 AM

Well we've invented some of the best things known to man, woman or beast.

Inventing the USA was one of finest endeavours though. :D

cheers,

I thought that the Bailey Bridge and the angled flight decks on carriers were pretty good too....

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at the dawn of victory sat down to rest, and resting died"....

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