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20mm aa gun


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#1 paratrooper506

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:29 AM

was a single barreled 20mm aa gun used by japanese

#2 razin

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:57 AM

Army type 98 20mm Machine cannon dual purpose
Gas operated muzzle velicity 830m/s wieght of shell 0.13kg

Magazine feed looking like an overgrown Bren gun on three legged carriage with spoked wheels.

#3 paratrooper506

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:00 PM

well from your input I,d say that the german flakvierling was therefore better than the type 98 thanks

#4 razin

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 01:20 PM

Probably like most Japanese auto weapons it left much to be desired, the Flak30-38 (Flakvierling just means a quad mounting) was probably much better, there were few successful gas operated 20mm cannons and this one shows an ancestory in the 13.2mm type 93 heavy MG which is almost a direct copy of the French Mle 1930.

#5 paratrooper506

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 01:25 PM

well what I,m saying is four barrels are better than one.

#6 razin

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:21 PM

the Japanese navy had a 25mm A/A gun the type 96 which was used in single twin and triple, it was almost a universal type as a light A/A in the Japanese navy and many were used ashore, again it seems to be based on the similar French Hotckiss Mle30-39 but again compared to Flak 30 -38 Oerlikon,Posten, Breda and Scotti it was lacking in basic capablities such as vertical range.

Edited by razin, 30 January 2009 - 04:55 PM.


#7 paratrooper506

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:32 PM

thats a higher caliber

#8 razin

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:06 PM

Yes I know it is, the reason for the last post was to give you information that the Japanese preference was for the 25mm cannon hence it developed into multiple A/A. 20mm and 25mm were still the same light A/A catergory. It is probable that the only reason the Japanese army retained the single 20mm mount was it was relatively easy to move around and there may be a cominality of round with the 20mm A/T gun type 97 but this will require some study a Japanese rounds are extremely complex.

#9 paratrooper506

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:08 PM

well I can always go to wiki and check it out

#10 razin

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:17 PM

Please do. I have the answer but I'll wait to see what you can come up with.

Steve

#11 paratrooper506

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 02:27 AM

well what I found was a type 98 firing a 20mm shell it weighed 373kg its traverse was 5 to 85 degrees with a three hundred and sixty degree spin around

#12 razin

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 08:56 PM

Paratrooper506

well what I found was a type 98 firing a 20mm shell it weighed 373kg its traverse was 5 to 85 degrees with a three hundred and sixty degree spin around


Right you went on Wikipedia and that was what you found,. I looked at it and found that the Type 98 has a mounting with an elevation of -5° to +85° and and a 360°
traverse. Note how you didn't use the correct terms elevation and traverse are basic.

But what I asked was

is there any commonality in the rounds used by the Type 98 20mm A/A gun and the Type97 A/T rifle?



Its not hard with the internet all you do is Google 20mm Type 98 A/A gun and you will find on the first page www.quarry.nildram.co.uk enter this site which is about ammunition and weaponry, it is the site of Mr Tony Williams who you will find has in the past made contribution the WW2.f (this is why new members should look around past posts as advised by the site administrators) Mr. Williams has made a great deal of information to web users and from his site it can be ascertained that the Type 97 and Type 98 weapons have different size cartridges which means they are incompatable. They are shown in the attachments Type 98 Type 97 and Type96 which is shown for completeness of my earlier post.
[ATTACH]5037[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]5038[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]5039[/ATTACH]
The type 97 has a cartridge length of 125mm and the type 98 has a cartridge length of 142mm. Both types used the same Type 100 A/P Shot weighing 162gr. The Type 98 had an A/P shot to allow it use as a A/T weapon.

Thanks to Tony Williams ammunition web site

It took less than a half hour to find this information a lot less time than it has taken to right this.

Attached Files


Edited by razin, 31 January 2009 - 09:02 PM.
deleting surious attachment


#13 razin

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 09:08 PM

Further to my last post

While searching I also found that their were at total of 5 different types of 20mm gun and numerous mountings Of the 5 there were;

Type 98 which had 4 variations of gun mount the single barrel type 2 which had an elevation of -10° to +90° and was based on the German Flak38 mounting the gun itself was still the same as the type 98 a twin pedestal mount produced in small number see attachments.

[ATTACH]5043[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]5044[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]5045[/ATTACH]


Type 97 A/T rifle which became the Ho1,2 and 5 aircraft guns.

Type 99 mod 1 which is a Becker type Oerlikon gun 20 x 72RB

Type 99 mod 2 which is a variation with larger cartridges 20 x 101RB
Both Type 99 were aircraft weapons but were used on pedestals as A/A weapons in the later part of WW2.

The final type is type 94 which very little is known about cartridge is 20 x158 but method of operation is unknown as yet!

Steve

Attached Files



#14 paratrooper506

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 04:46 AM

well that a lot of info sorry about not using the correct terms for degrees and elevation on the gun I found on wikipedia the information you provided was not known by me cause I found just one gun cause I did not take the time to look around:D

#15 razin

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 03:28 PM

Paratrooper506

The reason you should always use the correct terms is so people can follow what is said, what we study in weapons and technology is sometimes called military science. Be scientific.

When you do research it is a good idea to look through at least the first 5 pages of google. You have really got to learn how to do your basic research, this and life experience such as being in the service and visiting interesting places will mean you can post valuable information. How do you think JC does it, he has life experience and what he doesn't know he knows where to find information. You don't see him post questions that 5 minutes on google would give the answer. The information is out there, imagine what it was like before the internet?

Look at our respective join dates, we more or less joined at the same time, how many posts have I initiated -none, at the moment I am still finding my way around the site and like anyone joining an existing site I have probably unitentionally annoyed or upset some existing members, however when I have something to post it will be something I cannot find elsewhere. There is no point posting something like "tanks I like them?"

Steve

#16 paratrooper506

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 09:33 AM

well you don,t always really have to be scientific but still better to know than not to know but which japanese aa gun is more combat effective for taking down planes would it be the type 98 or something else that the japanese used also was,nt there a multi barreled variant . :gatlinggun: :ac_p51b:

#17 Tomcat

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 10:51 AM

The reason you should always use the correct terms is so people can follow what is said, what we study in weapons and technology is sometimes called military science. Be scientific.



You don't need to know the exact caliber or every weapon or the thickness of every armour or even the armour penetration of a said AT gun fired at a certain distance at a said sloped armour.


When you do research it is a good idea to look through at least the first 5 pages of google. You have really got to learn how to do your basic research, this and life experience such as being in the service and visiting interesting places will mean you can post valuable information. How do you think JC does it, he has life experience and what he doesn't know he knows where to find information. You don't see him post questions that 5 minutes on google would give the answer. The information is out there, imagine what it was like before the internet?



Perhaps you should lay off him mate about asking questions, I for one enjoy asking questions on this forum even if it could take a few minutes to find the answer on the internet. Why? Because the internet gives a straight answer and sometimes you need to ask a question about that information which isn't on that site, so I ask the question. There is nothing wrong with asking questions no matter how silly they may seem. Something like the mounting on an AA gun may seem simple to you but may not be so simple to others.


Look at our respective join dates, we more or less joined at the same time, how many posts have I initiated -none, at the moment I am still finding my way around the site and like anyone joining an existing site I have probably unitentionally annoyed or upset some existing members, however when I have something to post it will be something I cannot find elsewhere. There is no point posting something like "tanks I like them?"



Look at your respective join date? You are a new member to the forum and there fore should be showing respect to the older members as well as the new ones, especially since you are a new one. He may have annoying posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject, and if you don't like them then try using the PM service.



The only reason I am initiating this on the public forum for all to see is because you your self should see what you have just done to this other member, and you can feel the embarrassment that he himself might be feeling.



I am respectfully asking that you tone down your posts and be a little more respectful to the other members mate.
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For want of a nail the shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe the horse was lost, for the want of a horse the rider was lost, for the want of a rider the battle was lost, For want of a battle the kingdom was lost, and all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Robert,


#18 Tomcat

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 11:05 AM

Right you went on Wikipediaand that was what you found,. I looked at it and found that the Type 98has a mounting with an elevation of -5° to +85° and and a 360°
traverse. Note how you didn't use the correct terms elevation and traverse are basic.


And whats this all about, gezz mate lay of him.
For want of a nail the shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe the horse was lost, for the want of a horse the rider was lost, for the want of a rider the battle was lost, For want of a battle the kingdom was lost, and all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Robert,


#19 Mussolini

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 12:21 PM

Show a little respect to each other here please. Not everyone is as knowledgeable in every area as some people, thus the questions. If this behavior continues I will close this thread and dish out warnings where appropriate.
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#20 razin

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 03:16 PM

Mussolini

Show a little respect to each other here please


I appologise to any member I have offended by my last post.

To get back to the post

Does anyone have any information on the Type94 A/a gun?

Steve

#21 paratrooper506

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:02 PM

I do not think there is something like that cause I went to wikipedia and all I found was a type 94 75mm mountain gun and a type 94 anti tank gun in 37mm

#22 Joe

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:47 PM

Around halfway down this page: An introduction to collecting 20 mm cannon cartridges The 20 mm automatic cannon first saw service during World War 1 but achieved its

There was an earlier Type 94 AA gun which used even larger (20x158) ammunition, but this saw very little use before being replaced by the Type 98.



Browsing into the depths of Google (http://images.google...n&start=84&sa=N) there was something promising. But all I got was a small page in Japanese. It's the one that says bioglobe.

Edited by Joe, 03 February 2009 - 05:55 PM.

Posted Image

#23 razin

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 07:53 PM

Joe

Thanks for your post I'd already found the reference in Tony williams site that the only place I've found a reference, imagine ammo but no weapon, it's normally the other way round.

the bioglobe site is really good however (it opens properly now there have been some horrendous problem with the old WWW since the snow came) even has biological suits used in China -unfortunately no Typw 94 20mm A/A gun. It will probably turn up somewhere

thanks

Steve

#24 paratrooper506

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 10:13 PM

well I did,nt find anything on something like that so good luck trying to find that kind of info




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