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Spike Lee bemoans lack of movies about black soldiers in Second World War


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#1 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:51 AM

Spike Lee bemoans lack of movies about black soldiers in Second World War
MONTREAL - Amid all the movies that have been made about soldiers in the Second World War, few examine the contributions of blacks in combat. That's something that doesn't sit well with outspoken director Spike Lee.
"What films did you see with black troops in World War II?" he says while taking a break in signing autographs at a downtown HMV store. "There's not that many."
Showing African-American troops in action was a main aim of his latest movie, "Miracle at St. Anna," which has just been released on DVD.
"A million African-American men and women contributed, fought and died in World War II," the 51-year-old acclaimed director said.
Besides appearing at the store, Lee was in Montreal to speak at Concordia University as part of Black History Month.

"Miracle at St. Anna" did not do well at the box office and even Lee has said it's a film that people will likely discover on DVD. While some critics have praised it, the film was described as "pedestrian and awkward" by the Los Angeles Times and "dramatically inert" by the Wall Street Journal.
The criticisms are not all undeserved. The movie is uneven and at some points stretches credibility. But credit has to be given to many of the cast, particularly the infantrymen, who give engaging performances.
But Lee flashes a rare smile when he describes the reaction he got from real veterans of the 92nd Division who saw the film.
"They loved the film," he said with a laugh. "So did Tuskegee airmen. So did any enlisted black serving in the armed forces, now or retired."
Lee plans to revisit the Second World War in an upcoming film based on the book "Now the Hell Will Start," about a black soldier who killed his lieutenant and then fled into the Burmese jungle.
"We're going to start working on the script and hopefully we'll get the financing for the film."
Lee, who is known for such urban films as "Do the Right Thing," "Summer of Sam" and "Malcolm X," described making his first war movie as "a great experience."
"I was doing stuff I'd never done before - battle sequences, shooting in Italy, shooting with an Italian crew, four different languages."
Lee has many projects on the go - he just finished a documentary on basketball star Kobe Bryant for ESPN - but he questions how well African-Americans are doing in Hollywood when asked if better roles are appearing for black actors considering Oscars during the last several years for such stars as Halle Berry, Denzel Washington and Forest Whitaker.
"That's debatable," Lee replied, repeating the answer when asked if the election of President Barack Obama might have any effect.
"I think it's going to affect artists, but not necessarily the studios. That's two different things."
Lee said things won't change "until we get into those gatekeeping positions," adding with a laugh, "and they're not going to let me get one of those."
While he will make more Second World War movies, Lee said he has no plans to make any films on Iraq or Afghanistan.
"Not my interest," he said with a shrug.
While it addresses an important part of African-American history, "Miracle at St. Anna" is not a history film.
It tells the story of four members of the U.S. Army's all-black 92nd Infantry Division, known as the Buffalo Soldiers, who get trapped behind German lines in 1944 Italy after one of them saves a traumatized Italian boy.
Besides dealing with some miraculous occurrences that come from the appearance of the youngster, the movie looks at the dynamics of the squad and explores what it was like to be a black soldier in an army that would not be desegregated until the next war - the Korean Conflict - more than five years later.
While moviegoers saw black soldiers battle in the U.S. Civil War in "Glory," only a handful have looked at them in the Second World War.
Norman Jewison's "A Soldier's Story" from 1984 is more of a murder mystery.
"Red Ball Express" from 1952 looks at the truckers - 75 per cent of whom were black - who supplied Gen. George S. Patton's Third Army on its dash across Europe. The movie's white stars are front and centre on a video box poster, with a 25-year-old Sidney Poitier off to the side.
Until "Miracle at St. Anna," the most high-profile production was probably 1995's "Tuskegee Airmen," about the legendary fighter squadron of black pilots.
Lee has a simple explanation why moviegoers haven't seen more stories of African-American fighting men and women.
"Hollywood didn't want to tell them," he said matter-of-factly. "They thought it was insignificant."

http://news.therecor.../article/490058
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#2 A-58

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:13 AM

Well, it's high time that Mr. Lee set us straight on what really went on. There are plenty of great stories to be told. For those who get their history education from books and not the movies, it's hard to believe anything he will make would pass muster with the modest of historians. As for making a tell-all war movie, he's certainly in the position to do so now, I don't know why he hasn't done it earlier. Maybe he just learned that there was a WW2 recently. He is bashing Hollyweird for not making movies that portrayed black GI's. Isn't Hollyweird the biggest liberal bastion in the country? Isn't he a Hollyweirdian? I have no problem seeing a well made movie of any military subject matter. I really liked "A Soldier's Story" myself. "The Tuskegee Airman" was enjoyable as well. The latter title had a slight modern spin on it, the former didn't. On was made in the 80s before PC was popular, the other in the 90s when it was the norm. Not to sound like a movie basher, I believe the script of "The Tuskegee Airmen" was written as such because the modern movie goer has no idea what happened last week, much less what happened 60 years ago. I'd really be surprised that Spike Lee could make a high calibre movie that had much relevence to reality. Hopefully I would be proven wrong.

Edited by A-58, 20 February 2009 - 12:52 AM.
just a little fixin

"On the Plains of Hesitation, lies the blackened bones of countless millions who,
at the dawn of victory sat down to rest, and resting died"....

(Adlai Stevenson to Harry Truman on discussing the pros and cons of dropping the big one, or so I'm told)


#3 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 01:14 PM

And there are plenty of true stories out there so next time around stick with the facts! And the great thing about facts is that they speak for themselves so you can lose the 1960s sermonizing and bending over backwards to portray your protagonists in the best possible light. Do it Mr Lee!
JeffinMNUSA
PS. And you might retain some ex military men to advise you on the finer details as you are woefully ignorant on these matters.

Edited by JeffinMNUSA, 19 February 2009 - 02:26 PM.

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#4 Skipper

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 04:06 PM

If you listen to him long enough you'll end up believing the Vikings were black. I don't mind if he focusses on minorites, on the contrary, but please let him not sacrifice historical accuracy in the name of politically corectness or his defintion of it.
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#5 dead_celeb

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:32 PM

That's a good little article, balanced and fair.

#6 C.Evans

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:29 PM

If you listen to him long enough you'll end up believing the Vikings were black. I don't mind if he focusses on minorites, on the contrary, but please let him not sacrifice historical accuracy in the name of politically corectness or his defintion of it.



A rare opportunity to give someth

ing twice-salute and rep points but--GREAT POST ;-))
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#7 texson66

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:47 PM

Dear Mr Lee,

If you are concerned about racial balance in everything, lets start with professional sports: particularly football and basketball. I'd consider more blacks in WWII movies when a more reasonable percentage of the players are white. Thanks!
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#8 brndirt1

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 06:46 PM

If Spike really wanted to make a good movie about the "colored troops" in WW2 he should investigate the combat engineers who made up a third of the manpower on the AlCan highway project. That was some feat, especially by the black troops as they were given the coldest (north to south-east) direction, the least equipment, and the worst shelter.

Now that would, or could be a great show. Or a re-make of the old Red Ball Express, but this time reflecting that over 60% of the drivers and loaders were black and that they had to bail-out and protect their own trucks with rifles on many occassions. The original movie had nearly NO black troops represented, but they made up the bulk of the Red Ball.
Happy Trails,
Clint.

#9 Wolfy

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 06:57 PM

Dear Mr Lee,

If you are concerned about racial balance in everything, lets start with professional sports: particularly football and basketball. I'd consider more blacks in WWII movies when a more reasonable percentage of the players are white. Thanks!


Black people and their dense, strong bones.

#10 C.Evans

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:10 PM

If Spike really wanted to make a good movie about the "colored troops" in WW2 he should investigate the combat engineers who made up a third of the manpower on the AlCan highway project. That was some feat, especially by the black troops as they were given the coldest (north to south-east) direction, the least equipment, and the worst shelter.

Now that would, or could be a great show. Or a re-make of the old Red Ball Express, but this time reflecting that over 60% of the drivers and loaders were black and that they had to bail-out and protect their own trucks with rifles on many occassions. The original movie had nearly NO black troops represented, but they made up the bulk of the Red Ball.



Hi Clint--Red Ball Express was a great movie and I wouldn't mind seeing a remake of it. Im a bit of a Jeff Chandler and Sidney Poitier fan.

Speaking of Sidney Poitier-and the Red Ball Express-h e was in it along with several other actors. One of which was a JazzMusician by the name of Tubber Johnson who played in the movie-a Dru and was nicknamed "Tappy." Another black actor I liked in the filmwas one who in the film-admitted to being a school teacher.I can'tthink of the actors name but-I found that he was likable-sameas "Tubber" and Sidney Poitier.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#11 A-58

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 07:59 AM

Any suggestions for subject matter for a WW2 movie focusing on black GI's? There are numerous individuals and their heroics that could be illustrated, as well as entire units. So far I have seen movies/documentaries on the army engineer units involved in constructing the Alcan, The Tuskegee Airmen, The Red Ball Express among others. My suggestion would be the exploits of the "Triple Nickel," AKA the 555th Parachute Infantry Battalion. It was the all black parachute unit that was not allowed to deploy overseas, but instead was sent to the western US to act as smoke jumpers to combat the fires set by natural occurances in addition to the fires set by the Japanese balloons that made it across the Pacific. Not like Spike Lee would listen to any of our suggestions, but I'm sure we could come up with better quality subject matter than he could that would show the black GI's in a more positive or patriotic light. Or maybe the incident at Port Chicago, where the huge explosion occurred during the loading of supply ships. Or Dorie Miller, who's exploits we all know of during Pearl Harbor. There were several black engineer units deployed to the CBI too, and another all black infantry division in the Pacific. Just an idea.

"On the Plains of Hesitation, lies the blackened bones of countless millions who,
at the dawn of victory sat down to rest, and resting died"....

(Adlai Stevenson to Harry Truman on discussing the pros and cons of dropping the big one, or so I'm told)


#12 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:13 AM

The 761 Mr Lee;
The 761st Tank Battalion: Fighting the Enemy, Beating Stereotypes
And no 60s sounding rap this time huh? It was the 1940s and these men were PATRIOTS-as you would be too if there was a real possibility of a Hitler setting up shop in your hometown.
JeffinMNUSA

Edited by JeffinMNUSA, 23 February 2009 - 01:30 PM.

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#13 Skipper

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:40 AM

As Long as Ice T is not chilling out, and checking everything out, know what I mean? It would be the best way to pay tribute to these men of honor

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#14 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:00 PM

Skip;
The all black combat units were also experimental, relatively few in number, and came later on in the game. And they didn't take just anybody. There is a part in the Tuskegee movie where the guys are in the barracks calling out their college degrees-so I guess you could call the Tuskeegee Airmen "an elite formation" for all intents and purposes. Were the tanker and infantry units picky about their personnel? Probably-and "natural warriors", which are one in ten men according to SLA Marshall, would have been sought out (a natural warrior is a natural warrior, and a desirable part of any armed force no matter what population he/she comes from!). There were two all black infantry divisions, the 92nd in Italy and the 93rd in the Pacific. The performances of the all black units convinced the military of the viability of the black soldier and were instrumental in overturning segregation (though the JCOCs could have read their Civil War history and came to the same conclusion).
The 92nd 'Buffalo' Division
And it was the 92nd's bad luck to have NED ALMOND as a commander; http://www.absolutea...s/Edward_Almond
NationMaster - Encyclopedia: U.S. 93rd Infantry Division
JeffinMNUSA
PS. And here is some excellent news-MORGAN FREEMAN is working on a movie about the 761 Tank BTN. http://en.wikipedia...._(United_States)
So Spike...Morgan beat you to that one. So howzabout another Tuskegee movie with the true story of the airmen VS. NAZI jets?
PS. More links;
Task Force 45
Task Force 45
761st Tank Battalion
World War II: 761st Tank Battalion » HistoryNet
TUSKEGEE AIRMEN HISTORY
Tuskegee Airmen History
92nd Infantry Division
African American 92nd Infantry Division Fought in Italy During World War II » HistoryNet
African-American Platoons in WWII
African American Platoons in World War II » HistoryNet
Black Gunners at Bastogne
Black Gunners at Bastogne | Army | Find Articles at BNET
Black Crew of World War II Navy Ship Recognized for Heroism
Black Crew of World War II Navy Ship Recognized for Heroism - New York Times
The History Place - African-Americans in WW II
The Right to Fight: African-American Marines in World War II
The Right to Fight: African-American Marines in World War II (Peleliu and Iwo Jima)
The Right to Fight: African-American Marines in World War II (Basic Racial Policy)

Edited by JeffinMNUSA, 23 February 2009 - 07:37 PM.

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#15 brndirt1

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:27 PM

If he doesn't want to do "heroic", he might like to make one of a more rabble-rousing type? Like:

Were members of the controversial 364th (Negro) Infantry Regiment killed at Mississippi's Camp Van Dorn to silence their relentless -- and sometimes violent -- demands for equality in a segregated Army?

For an interesting read on this goto:

The Mystery of the 364th | | AlterNet

Even if it is an "alternative" history site, I don’t think this is an example of total flights of fancy. It doesn’t say this did or didn’t happen exactly, and it seems that tracing down the names of the troops who were stationed there at that time seem a bit problematic for some reason. But then again, these seem to have been troublemakers, or maybe just "troubled" young men who had been involved in a couple of other race riots before being stationed at Camp Van Dorn outside of Centerville MS.

This type of thing is more up Spike Lee’s alley, and I have never seen the program referred to as being on The History Channel. But then again I just about never watch that stinker except in the morning at 4:00 am US Mountain Time when Cable in the Classroom comes on for an hour.

Happy Trails,
Clint.

#16 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:53 PM

Skip;
The all black combat units were also experimental, relatively few in number, and came later on in the game. And they didn't take just anybody. There is a part in the Tuskegee movie where the guys are in the barracks calling out their college degrees-so I guess you could call the Tuskeegee Airmen "an elite formation" for all intents and purposes. Were the tanker and infantry units picky about their personnel? Probably-and "natural warriors", which are one in ten men according to SLA Marshall, would have been sought out (a natural warrior is a natural warrior, and a desirable part of any armed force no matter what population he/she comes from!). There were two all black infantry divisions, the 92nd in Italy and the 93rd in the Pacific. The performances of the all black units convinced the military of the viability of the black soldier and were instrumental in overturning segregation (though the JCOCs could have read their Civil War history and came to the same conclusion).
The 92nd 'Buffalo' Division
And it was the 92nd's bad luck to have NED ALMOND as a commander; Edward Almond: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article
NationMaster - Encyclopedia: U.S. 93rd Infantry Division
JeffinMNUSA
PS. And here is some excellent news-MORGAN FREEMAN is working on a movie about the 761 Tank BTN. http://en.wikipedia...._(United_States)
So Spike...Morgan beat you to that one. So howzabout another Tuskegee movie with the true story of the airmen VS. NAZI jets?
PS. More links;
Task Force 45
Task Force 45
761st Tank Battalion
World War II: 761st Tank Battalion » HistoryNet
TUSKEGEE AIRMEN HISTORY
Tuskegee Airmen History
92nd Infantry Division
African American 92nd Infantry Division Fought in Italy During World War II » HistoryNet
African-American Platoons in WWII
African American Platoons in World War II » HistoryNet
Black Gunners at Bastogne
Black Gunners at Bastogne | Army | Find Articles at BNET
Black Crew of World War II Navy Ship Recognized for Heroism
Black Crew of World War II Navy Ship Recognized for Heroism - New York Times
The History Place - African-Americans in WW II
The Right to Fight: African-American Marines in World War II
The Right to Fight: African-American Marines in World War II (Peleliu and Iwo Jima)
The Right to Fight: African-American Marines in World War II (Basic Racial Policy)


I posted quite a few of these links both here and on THC.

http://boards.histor...ps-In/520035021
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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

#17 A-58

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:14 AM

I am looking forward to Morgan Freeman's work concerning the 761st. I had forgotten about that unit when mentioning subject matter for movies, but it's time that their story should be told. In the past, I have been called a revisionist by some friends because I pointed out perpatrated myths about history, due to folklore, hearsay and by far, belief in movies as fact. History should be reported as it happened, good bad and ugly. Something about being doomed to living it again if not learned the first time around....

"On the Plains of Hesitation, lies the blackened bones of countless millions who,
at the dawn of victory sat down to rest, and resting died"....

(Adlai Stevenson to Harry Truman on discussing the pros and cons of dropping the big one, or so I'm told)


#18 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 05:03 AM

I posted quite a few of these links both here and on THC.

Black Troops in Combat in Wars in History Channel

JC; So that was your post I turned up on Google? Great series of links! What is your opinion of GEN Almond? The Korean War book I read portrays him as a hopeless yesman who played along with MacArthur's "No Chinese here" fantasy untill it exploded in the UN forces' faces.
JeffinMNUSA
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#19 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 09:03 PM

Yep that was me LOL. Im Kaoschallenged over on THC. I created that thread in reponse to a troll by the name of red army that basically claimed that the Army never used Black troops in combat. Not really sure about the General. Ill have to see what I can find on him. Btw another unit hardly mentioned is the 93rd Infantry Division in the Pacific.
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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

#20 Jaeger

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 11:26 AM

Jaeger bemoans lack of movies about british soldiers in the Second World War.
'We march. The enemy is retreating in transport. We follow on foot.' Lt.Neil McCallum 5/7 Gordons 19th November 1942

#21 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 06:46 PM

Yep that was me LOL. Im Kaoschallenged over on THC. I created that thread in reponse to a troll by the name of red army that basically claimed that the Army never used Black troops in combat. Not really sure about the General. Ill have to see what I can find on him. Btw another unit hardly mentioned is the 93rd Infantry Division in the Pacific.

JC;
David Halberstam's book on Korea; Powell's Books - The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam
NOthing good about Ned Almond and some really scathing indictments of MacArthur's chief intell officer Willoughby. MacArthur gets high marks for the Inchon landings, but then proceeded to wreck his reputation by charging off Northwards in spite of all evidence of a growing Chinese storm.
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Charles A Willoughby wrote the book on "How NOT to conduct intell ops"; http://books.google....num=9&ct=result Not to feel so bad Chuck-the Reds consistently danced circles around Western Intell for the 60 yrs following the end of WWII. How did NKVD and then KGB get so good at the intelligence game? It started in WWII.

Edited by JeffinMNUSA, 27 February 2009 - 05:03 PM.

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#22 A-58

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 05:56 PM

Jaeger bemoans lack of movies about british soldiers in the Second World War.

What is the most recent film made in Britain concerning WW2? Can't say that I can remember a good recent one either. Something must be done about that too....

"On the Plains of Hesitation, lies the blackened bones of countless millions who,
at the dawn of victory sat down to rest, and resting died"....

(Adlai Stevenson to Harry Truman on discussing the pros and cons of dropping the big one, or so I'm told)


#23 william frail

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:56 PM

How about a WW2 movie about the port Chicago Mutiny ? That would make a fine subject matter for Mr. Lee.Or a story about the USS Macon. How bout it Mr. Lee.
Service above Self

#24 C.Evans

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:40 AM

How about a WW2 movie about the port Chicago Mutiny ? That would make a fine subject matter for Mr. Lee.Or a story about the USS Macon. How bout it Mr. Lee.


I'd be all for that Port Chicago Mutiny movie-as long as it stayed true to the facts and not just another racism picture that spiked leeches is so well-known for making.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#25 Volga Boatman

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:59 PM

I have written a script or two in my time, specifically to deal with Afro-Americans..

My first project was a comedy about a group of travelling Afro American musicians..I was going to call it "BAND OF BROTHERS", but Speilberg beat me to it, so no chance there....
Llamas are bigger than frogs.:cool:




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