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Barbarossa


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#1 PzJgr

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Posted 30 December 2000 - 03:15 AM

What if Hitler had not postponed Barbarossa by two months because of the overthrow of the Yugoslovian Pro Axis government? Some say it was not necessary to have waited. The Balkan campaign did not take away resoures that would significantly affect Barbarossa. Could they have reached Red Square before the dreaded Russian winter? Could they have forced Stalin into a surrender? Thanks everbody.

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#2 Ron

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Posted 31 December 2000 - 12:19 AM

i don't think it would have made any diffeence either way. Besides i believe that even had Germany captured Moscow...The Russians would have kept fighting. It was only a matter of time before Russia's vastness swallowed Hitler's ideals.

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#3 C.Evans

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Posted 02 January 2001 - 09:37 PM

I agree with you. I dont think the capture of Moscow would have helped the Germans any-except propaganda wise.

#4 M60A1

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Posted 02 January 2001 - 10:15 PM

The question shouldn't be "Could they have captured Moscow (which was a political goal, rather than a military one), but rather how much additional damage could the Germans have inflicted on the Red Army before the onset of winter. Would it have been enough to cause the Soviets to capitulate? Probably not, but the Germans would probably have been much deeper into the USSR when winter did hit, and that might have been even MORE disastrous. IMHO

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#5 PzJgr

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Posted 02 January 2001 - 11:43 PM

I agree and disagree. The goal has been to demolish the Red Army. By attacking Moscow which was the heart of the USSR, it would be a good bet all of the Soviet effort would be to defend the capitol. I disagree in that Moscow was not a military target. Moscow was the central hub for the railroads. The railroad system was organized much like a spider web and Moscow was the center. Although Hitler may have been thinking politically, the General Staff was thinking militarily. This is why they disagreed, not too strongly, with Hitler's decision to send Guderian away from Moscow and assist with the taking of Minsk where his assistance was really not needed. This was another delay which contributed with the loss of Moscow.

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#6 C.Evans

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Posted 03 January 2001 - 02:53 AM

Great postings M60A1 and PzJgr. If the Germans had captured Moscow, it really wouldnt have changed anything, except causing more death and destruction.

I dont really see that it would have done much else-except prolong the war by perhaps-a few weeks-if even that.

#7 Desert Journeyman

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Posted 12 May 2001 - 04:16 PM

Stalin realized the threat posed by a Fascist Germany whose leader touted the massacre of all Slavic peoples.

Moscow's Red Orchestra had begun to suggest that the OKH was planning Barborassa shortly before the campaign's off-set, although Stalin ignored these because he assumed that the Germans would "prematurely".

A better question could be, given a better showing in Finland by the Red Army, would Hitler's generals have persuaded him to delay Barborossa?

And what if Germany entered wartime production in 1938? Berlin's output equated to more in 1943, under constant bombardment, than in 1939. This suggests, with emphasis on standardized models, that Hitler's quartermasters could have supplied the Rumanians, Hungarians, Slovaks, Lithuanians, Finns, Bulgarians, and Italians with sufficient artillery, armor, and motorized vehicles to form a more powerful fist against the Russians; especially once attrition began to wear down Germany's attached forces.

Meanwhile, I believe Hitler began Barbarossa too late, if anything, because the Soviets were already moving towards their Western frontier, away from the coming German menace.

[ 12 May 2001: Message edited by: Desert Journeyman ]
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#8 C.Evans

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Posted 13 May 2001 - 12:02 AM

Well said.

I doubt Hitler would have changed his plans any had the Russiand done a better job in Finland.

If Hitler been able to supply his allies with the same weaponry as his men had,, this leaves the war up in the air as to who would have won.

I would go into more details but im being booted off the librarys computer due to time to close, I will be back.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#9 PzJgr

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Posted 14 May 2001 - 10:15 PM

All of that points to Germany was not really geared for a long drawn out war which is what Hitler had did not expect. I also do not believe that at this period of time, Hitler could be persuaded to do anything by his generals. If Hitler had invaded two month's earlier, that would have given him that much time before the winter snows set in. I agree that regardless of the Finnish-Russian confilict outcome, it would not alter Hitler's bearing on Barbarossa.
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#10 C.Evans

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 02:49 AM

They werent. The USA did a smart thing by making their decision for "total war". The Germans didnt do so until late in the game. That was one of their biggest mistakes--making brassiers instead of better quality clothes for the freezing men on the Eastern Front.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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