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Bronze Serv Star on WWII Victory Ribbon

Discussion in 'Military Service Records & Genealogical Research' started by duckydps, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. duckydps

    duckydps Member

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    On my grandfather's uniform, he has a Bronze Service Star on his World War II Victory Medal Ribbon. I read that many vets who actually saw combat would put those there to distinguish themselves from people who didn't. I was just curious if anyone else has heard of this, or if they knew the real reason it was there. He has 4 service stars on his EAME Ribbon.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Buten42

    Buten42 Member

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    Ducky- There were no bronze stars to go with the WWII Victory medal (ribbon). If he had three 4 bronze on his EAME ribbon that would be proof enough that he served in a combat area. My brothers uniform has a green horizonal stripe below his chevrons which was an unauthorized symbol showing he was in front line combat. Some units allowed this display while on occupation duty in Germany because so many replacements that never seen combat were bragging about all the combat they were in. I never heard of placing a star on the Victory ribbon for that purpose, but it sure is possible.
    There was never a badge issued for the tankers like the wings for the airmen or the Combat Infantery Badge for the Infantry--the guys that served in the armored units always cocked their hats over their left eye for distinction. So there are lots of unwritten practices that they used for distinction that others reconized back then.
     
  3. applevalleyjoe

    applevalleyjoe Member

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    Buten42 is correct: bronze star appurtnances were not authorized for wear on the Victory ribbon. The fact that he had 4 campaign stars on his European/North African campaign ribbon would be more than enough proof of his combat experience.
     
  4. applevalleyjoe

    applevalleyjoe Member

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    Buten42 is correct: bronze star appurtnances were not authorized for wear on the Victory ribbon. The fact that he had 4 campaign stars on his European/North African campaign ribbon would be more than enough proof of his combat experience.
     
  5. sandy1369

    sandy1369 Member

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    I am learning so much from you guys!! My grandfather has 1 sliver star and 1 bronze on his ETO Ribbon and he has the French Croix De Guerre with palm.. and his Bronze arrowhead medal..

    his battles and campaigns read as follows..
    naples-foggia rome-arno normandy northren france rhineland central europe..

    Pa started in Oran Africa and was shipped to sicilia at the tail end of operation husky. was invoved in excerise tiger and waht I think i samazing.. we found out the he was one of the first 40 men to land ashore of Utah Beach,, He said that the paratroops were in and they were heading back towards shore.. These 40 men were in before h-hour to blow up the barbed wire and make way for the first wave to come ashore.. the more I dig and ask him questions the more I am just amazed he is here with me today..

    Anyway.. off the rant.. Thanks for this thread cuz I was wondering the same thing about thebattle starts on the ribbons.. I was confused with the actual Bronze and silver star medals meaning full size..
     
  6. duckydps

    duckydps Member

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    Interesting.... I knew there wasn't authorization for it, but he def. has one on it.... seemed like I had just read about it somewhere on the web...

    Any ideas why he did that?

    I wonder if it was something they did withing his unit?
     
  7. applevalleyjoe

    applevalleyjoe Member

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    No idea...in the "new Army", our uniforms were pretty carefully scrutinized before we were allowed off base to make sure that everything that we wore on them were correct and laid out in accordance with regulations. Perhaps it was a "unit" thing though contrary to regulations.
     
  8. Buten42

    Buten42 Member

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    As Joe said, ribbons and decorations are pretty well scrutinized, now, as well as back then. Always has been pretty sacred stuff. My guess it was put on by someone who didn't know where else to put it.
    Sandy, what unit was your father in? Make sure you get everything down that he will talk about--you will kick yourself on down the road if you don't. The silver star on the ribbon represent 5 campaigns-he was credited with six campaigns in the EAME Theater. The bronze arrowhead is credit for an invasion--only one is authorized regardless of how many he was involved in.
     
  9. sandy1369

    sandy1369 Member

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    My grandfather was in the 531st Engineer Shore Regiment 3rd battalion which is the 1st Engineer Special Brigade.. They turned into the 3053rd Engineer Combat Brigade after D-day.. When you look up the history it says that the 531st went in at 0630 but my grandfather had always told me that he was in beofre h-hour.. I could not understand that because of what I was reading and I foudn a man that was in Pa's unit but in HQ and he told me about the 40 men. He said that Pa was one of those 40 men.. Pa thought it was about 100 men that went with him.. come to find out it was only 40. The demo man he went in with was lost on the beach head..

    Pa knows I want to get all the history from him but it is hard for him due to his PTSD.. He can start to talk about it but it becomes hard and he gets frustrated.. he says how can I explain war to you.. I can't.. and then I stop becuase I don't want to push him at all. But I do want to get this done because there is not much out there on these men and we are loosin them fast. I call Pa a few times a day and beofre he goes to bed I call him to say goodnight.. He is my world and the more I dig the more I relize just because he walked out a PFC he is a hero.. you don;t have to bee the top man to be a hero.. All these Generals and Colonel's.. they would not have gotten done what they did if it was not the men under them doing it.

    Now that I understand those battlestars.. I have to get what medal he has in the picture that is between his good conduct and the ETO ribbon.. When PA left they were asking the guys what medals they had.. He is not credited for all the medals he should have at all, and some that he was sent home with are not on his dd-214.. There are other mistakes on his for also.. I was told that is because these guys were rushed threw.. hoping to check the information later. He has the presidental unit citation and that is not on there but the Army found it and he is getting that sent to him form them. He did not even know they got it.
     
  10. applevalleyjoe

    applevalleyjoe Member

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    Sandy, while I see that you've received answers to all (?) of your questions, you may or may not be aware of the fact that the French Croix de Guerre with Palm was a unit award for COLLECTIVE UNIT VALOR much akin to our own Valorous Unit Award. Typically, recipients were authorized to wear a fourragere (green w/red) on their uniform. On another note, on D-Day, prior to H-Hour, we did send in small groups of men to breach the defenses blowing up landing craft obstacles and clearing mines to create safeways for the landing craft. It sounds like your grandfather may have been one of these men. You also may or may not be aware that your grandfather is entitled to wear a number of Overseas Service Bars, about 4-6 depending on his dates of service. The shadow box should include at least one marksmanship badge...Marksman, Sharpshooter, or Expert. Hope that this helps. :cool:
     
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  11. Buten42

    Buten42 Member

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    Joe, not sure how the French did things and don't want to dispute your post, but the entire 2nd Armored Division was awarded the Belgium Croix de Guerre which gave each member the right to wear the Belgium Fourragere W/ colors of the Belgium Croix de Guerre. (I believe this was for the liberation of Belgium). Later, during the Battle of the Bulge, my brother was given the individual Belgium award of the Chevalier del'order de Leopold II avec palme (Knights Cross w/Palm) together with the Belgium Croix de Guerre 1940 avec Palme. These were individual awards--not a collective unit award. If Sandy's grandpa received the actual medal from the French Government as my brother did, it would indeed be an individual award.
    My brothers seperation papers show the Fourragere in box #33 "deorations and citations", but he was given the others on 3 January 1946, after he was home. A letter from the war Dept. said they would be added to his personnel records. So Sandy's grandfather's 214 may not show this award. Hopefully somebody with more savvy in this ares will shed some light on this, but I believe no medal was given for the unit award, only the Fourragere (shoulder cord).
     
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  12. impaskbir

    impaskbir recruit

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    The topic is interesting and attractive. I hope We will know to preserve the history value forever. :eek:
     
  13. sandy1369

    sandy1369 Member

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    applevalleyjoe... you are very right.. the croix de guere was a unit citation, it was given to the 1st Engineer Special Brigade. and the fouragere they were not awarded. to get that they would have to have been citied 2 times meaning 2 palms.. to be able to wear the fouragere. What is strange is that not all members of this unit can wear the medal, the only ones that can actually wear it is the ones that were citied personlly and individually.. This Pa remembers being and has his citation but the actual medal was lost somehow. He has the ribbon bar but no medal.

    I got some information from the amry historian and a letter from the French Ambassy and that is what it says.i'm thinking becaseu some guys were not actually on the unit when they did what it was that they were citied for..

    you are right about the overseas bar.. he has 5 for 30 months and he does have the marksman for rifle. We have found so many mistakes and I just found anohter... It nsays only one arrowhead and he should have 2.. he went in at the tail end of husky which was sisily so i do not think he gets that one but he has italy which he is missing, and normandy, which is the one that is accounted for.. I have to bring that to his veterans service officer so we can fix it. that is the one thing that has made me crazy through all this.. getting his dd-214 correct. I knowthese men should have known all that they were intitled to but they just wanted to go home and with what he has on it already they ran out of space, he says he told the lady but she was typing it up.. I thing she stopped cuz of no room..lol.. j/k not a laughing matter but I have to laugh at this point or I might crack...

    in the long run the 16 x 16 shadow box will work but it should have been bigger.. and I did not buy him the rest of the commemortive medals that he is intitled to.. that's like 9 more or so..

    thank you for all your help.. as soon as the box is all put together i will post pics.. thanks to all!!!!!
     
  14. sandy1369

    sandy1369 Member

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    oh.. and Pa calls the fouragere a fire hose... lol just thought it might get a few giggles... that's what he said to me when I was asking him if he was awarded it back then. Pa is a funny man sometimes..
     
  15. MarkO

    MarkO Member

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    My apologies for barging in on your conversation but I'm new here and am trying to learn...I have my father's medals from WWII and on his Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal is an arrowhead and 3 little bronze stars. So, from what I gather from the posts above, does that mean he was involved in 1 invasion and 3 battles? My father died about 17 years ago and my mother just gave me all of his medals, patches, pictures, etc. She's 86 now and was an Army nurse in WWII. Thank you in advance for any information.
     
  16. Buten42

    Buten42 Member

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    MarkO--Welcome to the forum. Yup, the three battle stars show he was involved in three campaignes in the Asiatic Pacific Theater. The one arrowhead means he was involved in one or more invasions since only one bronze arrowhead is allowed to be worn on a campaign medal regardless of how many he actually participated in.
    What branch and unit was he in? You come from a proud family-both your parents share my graditude for their service. Oh, the barging in is what this is about-all questions are good and usually somebody can answer them.
     
  17. MarkO

    MarkO Member

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    Dad was in the 77th Infantry Division...U.S. Army. Both of my
    parents were immigrants...Dad from Scotland & Mom from Lithuania.
    It was a pretty lively home. Thank you for answering Sir, I appreciate it.
     
  18. Buten42

    Buten42 Member

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    Marko--Did a little research on the 77th. A very bare bones summery, the 77th made an assault on Guam's eastern beaches, than made a suprise attack on the west coast of Leyte, in the Philippines, and finally Okinawa. I'm guessing his one arrowhead represents three assault landings. Your father was involved in some very serious combat. His division suffered 7,461 combat casualities in killed and wounded.
     
  19. MarkO

    MarkO Member

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    Yes...I now have a great little paperback booklet that was published by the 77th called "Your Victory". The U.S. Marines nicknamed the U.S. Army's 77th Infantry Division the "77th Marine Division" as a compliment to them. There are some great accounts in it that are just unbelievably horrible. Those guys were fighters.
     
  20. DDucz

    DDucz Member

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    Although the star was unauthorized, some did include it to make their uniforms more "showy" to people back home that didn't know much about what was awarded and for what. It made them stick out amongst others, i'm not sure how common it was but it did happen and is completely correct for the uniform in question to have it
     

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