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German Knight's Cross For Sale On Norwegian Website!


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#1 colletorww2

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 10:26 PM

I was searching on a norwegian sale website, kinda like Ebay, and I came across a guy that sold some stuff from the war, and one of the items were a Knight's cross, he said it was given to Generalmajor Hellmuth Mäder who commanded the 7th Panzerdivision. The cross and the ring is marked "800", he doubts this is a copy, but what do you guys think? I have asked for how much the price is, and I might buy it if I can afford it, and if it is not a copy.

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Best Regards

Vegar

#2 Erich

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 10:47 PM

have you looked into what a original RK costs Vegar ? you are talking if this is indeed this man's RK probably 5,000.00 US minimum even though the cross is in terrible condition
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#3 sniper1946

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 10:51 PM

interesting to say the least,and as erich said mega money either way,let us know how you get on,ray..

#4 Erich

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 10:55 PM

and I am probably on the very low end it could go for as much as 10,000.00 big ones especially if there was also paper documentation along with the RK.
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#5 colletorww2

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 10:56 PM

Oh, i thought it might cost something like that, but i will just have to see what the seller says(I know that sounded weird, I can't afford it anyways).
Best Regards

Vegar

#6 RRCOLLECTOR

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:39 AM

I think the Oak Leaves would be $5,000.00 just by themselves...I wouldn't hold out much hope for this piece...

#7 C.Evans

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:46 AM

The ribbon itself can easily fetch about $2,000. I can say that the ribbon is original-im not good enough about the other items ;-))

Oh and I have seen on a German site-though some months ago-a decent Knights Cross listed for about $4,200 or so. It sold almost as soon as it was listed.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#8 Skipper

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:15 AM

It' actually in a fairly good condition and can be easily cleaned. The buyer will have to choose whether he restores the paint or not. I'd just take the rust away and add some black polish. This way it would be protected against future rust and the color would be restored without altering the original condition. But what am I saying 5000$? I can buy a car with that money!!
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#9 Kai-Petri

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 01:13 PM

If the seller himself doubts that what he is selling is probably a copy I would not think of buying the item to be honest.... That´s my point of view...
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#10 Skipper

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 01:36 PM

That makes sense. It's either good or bad, not "I don't know, but I still sell it for a fortune but I warned you just in case" like you see all the time.

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#11 will382

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 11:09 PM

I don't like it either, the date's all over the place. Carl, I don't think that it is an original ribbon - but you are more experienced than me ;)

#12 C.Evans

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 06:16 AM

Hi Will, the authentication of this ribbon is easy. I base it on what I learned from two other collectors as well as from all the ribbons I have seen ;-)) Its hard to point out without having other examples handy to compare to but, you can tell its not the modern or post war repo ribbon. ;-)) Also, thanks for the vote of confidence in my abilities ;-))
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#13 Skipper

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:53 AM

What about the clasp? Doesn't it look a bit new?

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#14 C.Evans

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 05:10 PM

I just took a better look at it (more than 2 seconds) and I dont like it either, but what the hey? whudda I know about these ;-))
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#15 Erich

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 05:31 PM

generated fakes are all over the place one can get a ribbon, oakleaves and unless the experten has the item in hand to "feel", weight and closer inspection with magnifying glass you will never really know except to trust the seller........yikers ! that cross still looks too ugly to me to even consider with rusting within the iron-core, as Skip said it would take some clean up but then would it harm the black finish even further whether fake or real ?

my opinion would be to.........walk away fast

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#16 will382

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 10:34 PM

I only question the ribbon because it has unusual stitching and off-colours. In my opinion, if you're going to spend this kind of money, unless you and the dealer know that it is a cast iron original - don't bother, it's not worth it.

And as for the claim of it belonging to Hellmuth Mäder, I'd want to see some pretty strong evidence for it. Sounds like a name's just been picked of a list if you ask me.

#17 C.Evans

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 04:50 AM

I cant really say anything about the Oaks and Swords as im not knowledgable enough on those eiter but, I think its felt here the RK is a fake. On looking at it longer-the cross looks like to me like it is a solid one-piece construction and as far as im aware of-no RKs were made as solid one-pieces.

Ive seen original RK ribbon and quite a few sites. Soem have it at low prices-others at high prices. Go to Huesken, Weitze, Niemann and a few others sites, and you will find original RK ribbon for sale-even bits and pieces ones like the above.

The Oaks and Swords to me look like early 1957 pieces. Im getting two sets of the mid period produced sets of Oaks and Swords-and the one shown looks like a 57 piece or downright not WWII vintage. Thi is based on what I have seen that Paul has as well as what he says on these items. This Paul is not a member here and im not giving out his last name for people to have to know who to bug about things ;-) I've got a major deal in the works with him and his stuff-but is taking forever thanks to UK Customs. At earliest, I see this taking at least another 2-3 months before I get the Cased 57 RK w/Oaks, Swords, Diamonds, Spare Oaks, and spare Oaks and Swords--in my skinny hands. I DO know where my package of trading material is-which as at some UK Customs Depot-sitting there on some dusty shelve-waiting to be returned to me by damned ship instead of air-like I sent it to begin with. UK Customs is also costing me at least $100.00 more in postage-rotten SoBs. Grrrrrrr.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
:snoopy: :ww1ace:
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#18 stewy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:41 PM

Can you get a pic of the "800"? That would help,the fact there's no pic & other dubious points makes me sceptical,sorry:(. Stewy

#19 colletorww2

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:42 PM

No, the seller has not posted any other pictures, and i have tried contacting him, but no response.
Best Regards

Vegar

#20 stewy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:49 PM

The strike of the cross on the outside of the coil is not what i'd expect on a KC. But pics arn't the best. Stewy

#21 stewy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:58 PM

It's a fake for sure. It's in WAF's fake gallery. Owned by someone in Norway. Strangely enough:mad:. Stewy

#22 Rudolf Souval

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 12:13 AM

It's just scary what people fall for when you write it. I owned this cross, and i was behind the sale of it. Of course it didn't belong to Mäder or what his name was, it was totally bogus. I listed it as original, and waited for reactions, got a few mails on it. The site it was offered on is not like ebay, you need to contact the seller directly through mail and ask for price.

I posted it as original to see what reactions i got on it, got some interesting mails on it. I informed all who showed interest that it was a fake, and i sold it to a good friend of mine later.

The cross is a so called "new rounder". A friend of mine actually lost big money on it, who bought it from a "dealer in canada with a lot of other knights crosses and german crosses in gold/silver. He sold them all on the bazaar table on WAF, and i bought one from him there for around 250$ and later sold it to a friend for 200$

Hope that explains some ;)

#23 RD3

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:49 AM

It's just scary what people fall for when you write it. I owned this cross, and i was behind the sale of it. Of course it didn't belong to Mäder or what his name was, it was totally bogus. I listed it as original, and waited for reactions, got a few mails on it. The site it was offered on is not like ebay, you need to contact the seller directly through mail and ask for price.

I posted it as original to see what reactions i got on it, got some interesting mails on it. I informed all who showed interest that it was a fake, and i sold it to a good friend of mine later.

The cross is a so called "new rounder". A friend of mine actually lost big money on it, who bought it from a "dealer in canada with a lot of other knights crosses and german crosses in gold/silver. He sold them all on the bazaar table on WAF, and i bought one from him there for around 250$ and later sold it to a friend for 200$

Hope that explains some ;)


What would you have done when somebody had offered a really good price?

#24 Rudolf Souval

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:56 AM

I would have informed the interested party that it was a forgery. I actually had an offer on 5000$ on it, but i told the guy who was interested that it was fake and that he could have it for 200$ if he was interested. It's not my intention to offer reproductions as originals. All items i offer have been discussed on WAF.

#25 Skipper

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:57 AM

I don't think this is so funny, even if it was meant as some kind of joke and the fact that you wanted to see who was going to fall for it.
In my opinion the only way to deal with a fake is to destroy it or to mark it as such. Now it's still available on the market, who knows when it will be displayed again on an auction site and possibly be marked as "genuine" by another seller?
The fact that the ad mentionned an invented story and stated the EK as genuine makes it illegal for a start.

Edited by Skipper, 26 August 2011 - 09:11 AM.

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