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Hitler's Non-white soldiers.


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#1 Chef des Todes

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:32 PM

Black and Muslim Nazi troops were prevalent in the Eastern Front in 1944, and according to historians they were treated better and respected more than black troops in the U.S army who could not eat in the same tables as whites or sleep in the same tents, black soldiers in the German Army were treated humanely and had all the rights given to white German soldiers.

The German army was the most tolerant and multi-cultural army in Europe at that time. Believe in what you wanna believe, just showing pictures.

Arabs
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Chechens

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Bosnian muslims

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Georgian
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Indians
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Turkministanis
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Koreans
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Japanese

http://img22.imagesh...31/45ji76k6.png

Africans

http://img249.images...2/676k8keta.png

http://img405.images...3/g54u789lo.png
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#2 Mark4

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:35 PM

Black people? So i can join the Army!!Panther here i come:D:D

#3 Mark4

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:37 PM

and according to historians they were treated better and respected more than black troops in the U.S army who could not eat in the same tables as whites or sleep in the same tents, black soldiers in the German Army were treated humanely and had all the rights given to white German soldiers.

Why am i not shocked are you sure because nazies and yea............

#4 Chef des Todes

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:40 PM

History is written by the victor
U.S.Army-Providing Enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775

We can't all be Washingtons, but we can all be patriots. ~Charles F. Browne

If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag. ~Author Unknown

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#5 Mark4

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:46 PM

So do this mean i can be a German reenactor? Because i don't want to be the Americans.

#6 nachtjager61

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:21 PM

The Korean army recieved a ton of suplus Wehrmacht and Waffen SS clothing after WWII ended and used it in their own army. There are photos to be seen of Korean soldiers wearing the Waffen SS dot camo tunics that still have the sleave eagles attached. However these are post WWII photos where you can see of Korean army soldiers totally outfitted in surplus wehrmacht and a whole bunch of Korean soldiers in Waffen SS uniforms as well.
Do you know for sure that the photos of the Koreans are from the War or after the war?
Don't forget that the British Army had Indian and Senagalese soldiers as well as quite a few other nations too.

Edited by nachtjager61, 22 July 2010 - 05:21 PM.
spelling

"in the absence of orders, go find something and kill it"
-Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

#7 Mark4

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:24 PM

The Korean army recieved a ton of suplus Wehrmacht and Waffen SS clothing after WWII ended and used it in their own army. There are photos to be seen of Korean soldiers wearing the Waffen SS dot camo tunics that still have the sleave eagles attached. However these are post WWII photos where you can see of Korean army soldiers totally outfitted in surplus wehrmacht and a whole bunch of Korean soldiers in Waffen SS uniforms as well.
Do you know for sure that the photos of the Koreans are from the War or after the war?
Don't forget that the British Army had Indian and Senagalese soldiers as well as quite a few other nations too.

So their's no black people?

#8 USMC

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:43 PM

The Korean army recieved a ton of suplus Wehrmacht and Waffen SS clothing after WWII ended and used it in their own army. There are photos to be seen of Korean soldiers wearing the Waffen SS dot camo tunics that still have the sleave eagles attached. However these are post WWII photos where you can see of Korean army soldiers totally outfitted in surplus wehrmacht and a whole bunch of Korean soldiers in Waffen SS uniforms as well.
Do you know for sure that the photos of the Koreans are from the War or after the war?
Don't forget that the British Army had Indian and Senagalese soldiers as well as quite a few other nations too.



using uniforms in post war korea? Can you post some documentation, I am quite interested in the subject matter.

#9 Mussolini

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:51 PM

Not in the German Army. They made up such a low percentage of the German population that they were probably never considered for the Army. Unlike the Allies, the Germans didn't have African Colonies or Colonial Troops from such places.

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#10 BCap

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:27 PM

Maybe the black soldiers were recruited from the ranks of the Vichy French? Or they were just African-German soldiers (although I thought the Heer wouldn't let them serve)?

#11 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:13 PM

Black and Muslim Nazi troops were prevalent in the Eastern Front in 1944, and according to historians they were treated better and respected more than black troops in the U.S army who could not eat in the same tables as whites or sleep in the same tents, black soldiers in the German Army were treated humanely and had all the rights given to white German soldiers.

The German army was the most tolerant and multi-cultural army in Europe at that time. Believe in what you wanna believe, just showing pictures.

Arabs
Posted Image

Posted Image

Chechens

Posted Image

Bosnian muslims

Posted Image


Posted Image

Georgian
Posted Image

Indians
Posted Image

Posted Image

Turkministanis
Posted Image

Koreans
Posted Image

Japanese

http://img22.imagesh...31/45ji76k6.png

Africans

http://img249.images...2/676k8keta.png

http://img405.images...3/g54u789lo.png


Chef;
Great photos! But the multicultural view came to the Heer as a matter of necessity, came too late, appealed to too few in the non German populations of the NAZI empire, and was scorned by the political leadership. The German Army of 1944 was indeed a Federal style force-but by then the die had been cast.
JEffinMNUSA

Edited by JeffinMNUSA, 22 July 2010 - 11:47 PM.

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#12 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:33 PM

So do this mean i can be a German reenactor? Because i don't want to be the Americans.


Mark;
There probably WERE some black soldiers in the Wehrmacht. French African POWs, natural warriors recognized by the Afrika Korps, British POWs rallied to the Axis cause... strange things happen in war and no war was stranger than the biggest to date.
Catch the Sam Pekinpah film "Cross Of Iron" from 1977 and you will see a presumably Ukrainian soldier fighting in the platoon against the Reds. These "Hiwis" started the war as human mules but...soldiers being soldiers "Steiner's platoon" eventually recognized and accepted the foreigner into the their ranks as a soldier, friend, and brother in arms.
Did such things happen with black troopers? Absolutely they did (and NAZI ideology be damned).
JEffinMNUSA
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#13 Chef des Todes

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:49 PM

I just found the photo's over time. I had no idea about other things. Shoot Im gonna look into this deeper myself. I do believe though, that there were some very large variety in the German Army
U.S.Army-Providing Enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775

We can't all be Washingtons, but we can all be patriots. ~Charles F. Browne

If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag. ~Author Unknown

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#14 JeffinMNUSA

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 02:48 PM

I just found the photo's over time. I had no idea about other things. Shoot Im gonna look into this deeper myself. I do believe though, that there were some very large variety in the German Army


Chef;
It would be helpfull to history if some Axis troopers of "other than German" origin were to come forward and tell their stories. The trouble is that the survivors were few. Case in point; I was reading the Blaichmann account of his time in the Moscow supported Armia Ludowa ( Rather Die Fighting, A Memoir of World War II ) and at one time the group captured a band of Soviet Muslims fighting in German uniform. They were all shot on Soviet orders.
Same same with the Soviet Cossacks who fought for independance under the NAZI banner-all shot as "Vlasovites".
JEffinMNUSA

Edited by JeffinMNUSA, 23 July 2010 - 03:02 PM.

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#15 brndirt1

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 03:41 PM

There was a picture of Chiang Kai-sheks son in a Wehrmach uniform somewhere, he studied in Germany at one of their war colleges. He returned to China and fought with his father against the Japanese.

Speaking of the Japanese, there was the story of a young Korean captured during the Normandy invaseion, "fighting" for the Nazis. He was originally conscripted by the Japanese, and captured by the Reds in the Mongolian border skirmishs. He joined the Red Army, was shipped west and then captured by the Nazis. Now he joined the Nazis and was captured by the Americans in 1944. Here was a single guy who fought for and against just about every major player in WW2 from 1939-1944. Strange things can indeed happen in the time of a war.
Happy Trails,
Clint.

#16 BCap

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 05:17 PM

There was a picture of Chiang Kai-sheks son in a Wehrmach uniform somewhere, he studied in Germany at one of their war colleges. He returned to China and fought with his father against the Japanese.

Speaking of the Japanese, there was the story of a young Korean captured during the Normandy invaseion, "fighting" for the Nazis. He was originally conscripted by the Japanese, and captured by the Reds in the Mongolian border skirmishs. He joined the Red Army, was shipped west and then captured by the Nazis. Now he joined the Nazis and was captured by the Americans in 1944. Here was a single guy who fought for and against just about every major player in WW2 from 1939-1944. Strange things can indeed happen in the time of a war.



I heard once that Allied forces captured a Japanese soldier during the early stages of the Normandy campaign. Could it be that the Korean soldier was mistaken for the Japanese man (whom I always presumed was a military adviser to the Heer)?

Also, I have heard of Jewish (or at least part-Jewish) men fighting in the German army during WWII (even in the SS, no less). The Muslim soldiers, I am not at all shocked about, I kinda thought that tensions between Muslims and British might have led to that sort of thing.

#17 Mehar

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 03:38 AM

The Korean army recieved a ton of suplus Wehrmacht and Waffen SS clothing after WWII ended and used it in their own army. There are photos to be seen of Korean soldiers wearing the Waffen SS dot camo tunics that still have the sleave eagles attached. However these are post WWII photos where you can see of Korean army soldiers totally outfitted in surplus wehrmacht and a whole bunch of Korean soldiers in Waffen SS uniforms as well.
Do you know for sure that the photos of the Koreans are from the War or after the war?
Don't forget that the British Army had Indian and Senagalese soldiers as well as quite a few other nations too.


There is actually a very famous picture of a Korean soldier shortly after Normandy, he was captured by American forces and was being documented. I will try to find the picture later but there were indeed Koreans in the army, they were often conscripted by the Japanese, captured by the Russians, conscripted, captured by the Germans, conscripted, etc.

The soldier in question actually became a celebrity of sorts after the war, I think he passed away in the 90s but was able to write a book.

Both sides had soldiers from various nations, the role of "non white" (if you want to use that term of course) soldiers on the Axis side (foreigners living in Germany as well) isn't talked about much which is a shame, we are losing so much valuable information and many stories in the process. To a certain extent, the "Allies" have similar issues as well in regards to documentation but it is far worse with the Axis.

Edit: Found this in my bookmarks shortly after posting,

http://thomo.coldie....ww2-german-army

Seems the book only has a Korean printing.

Also, the Heer were generally more lenient on the rules put forth by the Nazi's so they would be more willing to let others serve and they did, there was even internal opposition to Nazism but that is a different topic.


Not in the German Army. They made up such a low percentage of the German population that they were probably never considered for the Army. Unlike the Allies, the Germans didn't have African Colonies or Colonial Troops from such places.


Of course, but keep in mind, many of the foreigners living in Germany at the time from colonies like India, China, etc were mostly journalists, university students, etc. I haven't had time to look into it much but from what little I have found of these groups it seems they were treated pretty well when the Nazi's came to power despite their origins.

Germany did not have colonies in Africa at the outbreak of war but they did capture them and they did have them until the end of World War I, people like Letow left an impact so it would be interesting to see where motivations could have come from. Others had also switched sides when given the opportunity to do so by people like Bose.

Bcap: There were about 200,000 German Jews in the German and S.S. army if memory serves right. They all had different reasons for fighting, one of the most decorated German Jewish soldiers was half Jewish IIRC and wanted to show Hitler that a German Jew could do anything an Aryan German could do. At the start of the war restrictions on Jews joining the army were relaxed, the Nazi's later tightened them but many field officers needed all the help they could get so such orders were disregarded.

I think there is basically only one good book on the subject but only the first half of the book is worth reading from what I hear. I think the title was Hitler's Jewish Soldiers or something. I believe the book was also turned into a documentary or movie in the 90s revolving around the decorated soldier I alluded to previously.

It would be interesting to see how these soldiers acted on the field. Did they try to hide their identities if they were hidden, how were they treated by their fellow soldiers, captors, what were their feelings post war, etc.

#18 BCap

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 03:24 PM

I heard that W.E.B. Du Bois traveled to Nazi Germany before the start of the war, and was treated better by German scholars than by his colleagues back in America.

#19 brndirt1

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:58 PM

I heard that W.E.B. Du Bois traveled to Nazi Germany before the start of the war, and was treated better by German scholars than by his colleagues back in America.


Well, he and Booker T. Washington had taken opposite sides in the "black/white" civil rights argument, and a great many of Du Bois' colleagues in America sided with Mr. Washington.

There is something else to consider here when speaking of W.E.B. Du Bois, he did his post graduate work in Berlin before WW1 (1892?), he also traveled to Soviet Russia in 1927 and came to really appreciate the ideals espressed in Marxist-Leninism.

The fact that he was received well in Berlin by those men, might be because he was a known and old friend from before the first war when he visited again in the thirties. Add to that the fact that his trip to Germany was funded by the Nazi sympathizer Oberlander, perhaps Du Bois used that funding to assure his trip would come off without Nazi interference?

While in Germany his writings didn’t reflect the same position they did when he returned to America and wrote for the Pittsburgh Courier. Those article written in America were much more critical of the Nazi state; "…there is race prejudice in Germany today, and a planned regular propaganda to increase it."
 
Goto:

http://www.ghi-dc.or...5/supp5_099.pdf

(page 109)

And while Du Bois remained a Germanophile, mostly due to his pre-war experiences in Germany when he had found the German people to be largely; "...a kind folk, good hearted, hating oppression, and widely sympathetic with suffering…", he saw the Nazi state as an aboration in German history.

Goto:

http://www.ghi-dc.or...5/supp5_099.pdf

(page 110)

Du Bois later writings after his return to the US clearly show he felt the Nazis to be a "murderous mob" that had subjugated the Weimar Republic and built a repugnant oligarchy on the rubble.

It is my personal belief that the man was well treated by the Germans when he visited in the thirties for the same reason all the anti-Semitic signs and regulations were hidden from the world during the 1936 Olympics. Propaganda alone.
Happy Trails,
Clint.

#20 101trooper

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:59 PM

that really suprised me. thats really all i can say.....
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S. Patton

#21 Pelekys

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 01:04 PM

Hitler tried to use and to abuse the antisimitic and anticolonial (against the English) feelings of the Arabs who lived in the Middle East. He tried to begin a revolution against England in Iraq and then in Palestine. He also tried to recruit Arabs. In the second picture Hitler is together with the Great Mufti of Jerusalem (you can find the full story in another thread of the forum). The first photo shows some Arabs volunteer who joined the Africa Corps.

In the 5th picture most probably we see members of the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian).
In the last 2 pictures i noticed a badge in the right arm of the black soldier.
I made a little research and found it. There are 2 words in the bottom of the badge 'FREIEN ARABIEN'.
There were 2 battalions. The 1st Free Arabs training Batallion and the 845 Free Arab Infantry Training Batallion.
Both of them involved in anti-partizans operations in Greece and their base was a camp in Lavrio, appr. 50 km SE from Athens. After the fail of the Iraqi's revolution against the English, the Prime Minister of Iraq Rasint Ali al Gailani who has anti Jew and anti English feelings and he was admired the Nazi's regime escaped
(May 1941 to Persia and then via Turkey to Germany.He decided, with the support of the the Germans, to establish an Arabian Legion from Arrab volunteers to fight on the side of the Germans. So in JUly of
1941 was established the 1st Deutsche Arabische Lehr-Abteilung in Lavrio a small city 50 km SE of Athens. The members of this Batallion were mainly Iraqis, Syrians, Palestinians, and Tunisians. Also
from Morroco and Algiers. Some of them were escaped from Iraq as Gailani and others were ex POW's or students in the European universities. German officers trained them in Desert war tactics. Their equipment was from the French Army
which was taken from the Germans. they had the Usual German helmet.They had the badge with the Iraq's flag and the words 'FREIEN ARABIEN' on the right arm and a white stripe with the words 'AT SERVICE
OF THE GERMAN WERMACHT' on the left. This unit fought against the Greek partisans and in some cases they make atrocities against the local people (Distomo village massacre). On November of 1943 another similar
unit came to Greece. The 845 German Arabian infantry batallion. It was established nearby Lintch-Austria. Arab students from France and Italy and other Arabs were among the 600 members of it. Their
mission was to guard railway stations, main roads and military facilities. they also participated in operations against the communist partisans. When Germans evacuated from Greece -October of 1944- the
Arab Batallion was serviced in Zagreb-Croatia against the local partisans in cooperation with the 104 German division.

Edited by Pelekys, 26 December 2010 - 06:38 PM.

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#22 Madmax_

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:05 PM

I was shocked when I first saw these black Africans in Wehrmacht uniforms. I've heard about Muslims in Wehrmacht but never about Africans in Wehrmacht. This is very interesting and strange to me. Thank you for sharing this.

#23 padutchgal

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:38 PM

Du Bois did visit Germany in 1936 and after he returned to the US, he wrote extensively about the racism there against the Jews. Although treated courteously by most Germans, he clearly distinguished between encounters with individual Germans, Germany as a whole, and Nazi politics, both in articles from 1936 and 1940. Du Bois recognized how grave the situation was for Jews and others.

#24 C.Evans

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:53 AM

I was shocked when I first saw these black Africans in Wehrmacht uniforms. I've heard about Muslims in Wehrmacht but never about Africans in Wehrmacht. This is very interesting and strange to me. Thank you for sharing this.


Why so shocking? The Germans captured I dont know how many Black French Colonial troops, ive got a few pictures of. Also, there were many serving in the FFL and undoubtedly, some joined the Germans cause to get better rations and such and were used no more than as Black "Hiwis". I also have a few pics of Hiwis mixed with their German masters.

A German FFL Vet once told me that about half of the men serving in the FFL, went to serve the Germans and the rest-the Allies. This German FFL vet had been a "Partisanjager" in the Waffen SS in WWII, then spent many years serving the French as an FFL volunteer and then finally, tried to lend his services to the US Govt-to help them on the Vietnam War.

The others like the Indians and such were in what they called Volunteer units and rarely had more than enough men in them to make even a full strength Battalion-which was less than 1,000 men. Not very good odds on numbers im afraid.

The Arabs were considered the worst soldiers ever, not my words but the words of a couple of German Vets I knew who are now no longer living.
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
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#25 judge death

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 10:07 AM

To me it isnt a surprise that the German Whermacht had soldiers from other countries and volountaries from middle east or africa etc. True that nazism is a bit racist of themself with believeing in that some races is better than others and communists and jews is the worst people. Other than that they didnt have much against other people, but the allied claimed them to be much worser than the reality was and since they won the war that was needed. But the history got a bit corrupted at some points due to the allieds claims of their version of history but enough of that, it belongs to another thread.

DAK (afrika corps) had some africians and muslims fighting with them to get free from the brittish control in their colonies and was threated well under the german command and the people was not against the germans either and often helped them.
On the eastern front they had jews, soviets, even communists and checks and many other nationalist fighting with them and they was treated as any other soldier by the germans. Okay: SS didnt but that isnt a surprise either since they took the nazism to a new level which inspires todays nazism into more racist form.

But yes, those photos(not all) are true and the german army wasnt against and racists to other peoples as some schools today teaches out.

When the allied landed on Normandy they meet some koreans and muslims and russians and black people fighting against them and the allied believed they were forced by the German nazis under gun threat to fight against the allied and was used as slaves. They send home some videos of it and claimed they were released and libereted by the allied from their slavery. So wrong they were. They were fighting volountary and to hopefully win on D day and take up the fight with soviet union, if Germany would lose the war then they wouldnt have any home to come home to and the soviets would shot them.
Few survived.

Happened sometimes they treated other nationals soldiers badly but the americans and brittish didnt was so kindly to their own either but that isnt written in any book from that time. The camps america did for all american japanese people during the war. That the black people was inferior to the whites and couldnt take the same busses or the soldiers couldnt sleep in the same tent as the whites etc.
Both sides made horrible stuff, but the allied wona nd therefore we only remember the germans war crimes. But war and history works that way.




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