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Who Shot Who First


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#1 donsor

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:12 AM

Is it true that we made the first shot during the war in the Pacific with Japan? I heard that a US plane shot down a Japanese Zero even before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

#2 Slipdigit

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:30 AM

Where did you hear this? The source of anything is over great importance.

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#3 donsor

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:41 AM

I've read an article but I'm not sure where or when that in December 1941 bur prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor that a Filipino pilot named Capt. Jesus Villamor, who was with the US Army Air Corp in the Philippines shot down a Japanese Zero flying a P-26 Peashooter.

#4 formerjughead

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:54 AM

Didn't happen

Jesus A. Villamor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

#5 belasar

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:55 PM

Does the Japanese sinking of the USS Panay count?
Wars are rarely fought in black and white, but in infinite shades of grey

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#6 mcoffee

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 02:00 PM

Captain Jesus Villamor did score an aerial victory in a P-26, but it was before the invasion of the Philippines, not prior to the Pearl Harbor attack or the attack on the Philippines, for that matter. There seems to be some question as to the type of aircraft he was credited with downing.

The AFHRA Aerial Victory Credits list Villamor with 1 credit for an enemy aircraft on 12 December '41.

Villamor was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for action on 10 December, and the citation states that he led his group of 6 P-26's into an attack on a formation of 54 Japanese bombers.

Villamor was awarded an Oak Leaf Cluster to the DSC for action on 12 December, and the citation states that it was for engaging and destroying an enemy fighter.

The article in the attached link states that Villamor shot down a G3M2 "Nell" on 12 December and credits Jose Kare with an A6M2 Zero on 23 December while flying a P-26.

Boeing P-26 Peashooter » HistoryNet
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#7 lwd

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 02:14 PM

A US destroyer did attack a Japanese sub at the entrance to PH before the Japanese planes arrived.

#8 Gebirgsjaeger

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 02:25 PM

A US destroyer did attack a Japanese sub at the entrance to PH before the Japanese planes arrived.

Was that the mini-sub they´ve found a time before with some holes in his turret from arty rounds?
Regards, Ulrich

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#9 lwd

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:04 PM

Well that's a bit complicated. Here's one chronology:
Japanese Submarines at Pearl Harbor.
And here's a linke to an in depth discussion of the topic:
The forum is:
Japanese Ships & Navy Message Board
The two threads are:
"THE FIFTH PEARL HARBOR MIDGET SUBMARINE": THREAD NO.1
and
NEW: "THE FIFTH PEARL HARBOR MIDGET SUBMARINE": THREAD NO.2
Note the first thread is avery long one I think the link has a link itself to a ziped version. There was a lot of information presented and the viewpoint of several of the poster changed over the course of the thread.
Note the chronolgy lists a number of attacks vs Japanese subs prior to the raid arriving. Not all of these were necessarily on real subs as the threads above make clear.
  • Gebirgsjaeger and Bryan Zero like this

#10 Gebirgsjaeger

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:11 PM

Thanks lwd for the links, very informative!
Regards, Ulrich

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem!" LtGen. Chesty Puller.

#11 mac_bolan00

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:27 AM

the midget sub fired torpedos before a depth charged set at 30 feet smashed it completely.

#12 lwd

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:49 PM

Which mini sub? From what I remember the one that got sunk outside the harbor entrance by a DD had not fired either of its two torpedos. The links I provided below may prove me wrong however.

#13 ResearcherAtLarge

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 06:05 AM

Ward's encounter with what is referred to as "Midget A" happened roughly an hour before the attack and she had the drop on the midget... no torpedos were fired before she was sent to the bottom. Monaghan rammed and sunk a second submarine ("Midget B" as it was the second one come across) after the midget fired her torpedos (both missed).

While we "fired first" it should be remembered that the midgets were there to perform a surprise attack. This was not a case of American agression.
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#14 mac_bolan00

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 06:45 AM

i sit corrected. the rammed sub was the one that got off a shot, not the depth charged one.

OT: the war of the ring began when the nine riders entered the shire. the war ended with the death of saruman, also in the shire.




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