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IBM-made M1 Carbine? Value?


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#1 George Patton

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:15 PM

Hello again,

Another WWII firearm value question, if you don't mind:

What would an IBM-made M1 Carbine (made in Sept 1943) in excellent condition be going for? I checked prices on a few other sites, and they seem to be all over the map (one is going for $600, but another going for $2200). I have to check a few more things (mainly the S/Ns, markings, etc of the major parts to see if it is a complete, original gun), but I know for sure that the barrel is stamped "IBM" and has the proper Ordnance Corps logo. The bore is very good. It has a bayonet lug on it, which probably indicates that it was modified after WWII. The only descernable damage is a small (1/4 inch) nick in the stock below the ejector port. The price that they are asking for is $895 CAD, which seems to be a little high for an M1.

Any comments are appreciated. Thanks for the help.

Best Regards,
Alan


#2 gst121

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:43 PM

The $650 to $900 range is about right. $2200 dollars is way overpriced though.
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." ~ Albert Einstein

#3 Gebirgsjaeger

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:12 PM

Alan, i know a nice guy at the States who is selling his Carbine with a lot of additional gear for around $600-$700. If you´re interested give me a PM.
Regards, Ulrich

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#4 George Patton

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:35 PM

Thanks for the feedback. Ulrich: I would be, but importing firearms from the US is a massive P-I-T-A over here. Thanks anyway.

Here is a photo of that IBM carbine:

Posted Image

Best Regards,
Alan


#5 formerjughead

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:43 PM

Standard Valuation Disclaimer:

This is not a valuation site; we are not in the habit of assessing values or proving authenticity of purchases.


IBM only made 350,000 +/- units during the production run of the M1 Carbine. It is not uncommon for weapons, which stayed in service, to be rearsenaled; a process in which parts are exchanged and replaced. Very often, during this process, parts are taken from unserviceable weapons and used to create servicable weapons or unservicable parts are outright replaced with new. During this process there is no care given to the manufacturer of the replacement parts; ergo: An M1 Carbine with an IBM barrel may contain parts from several M1 carbines from a variety of manufacturers or production periods and it may not be a 'Complete' M1 Carbine.



#6 Gebirgsjaeger

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:54 PM

First i thought it has the wrong upper handguard, but for the 1943 it is possible that it has the one with the two rivets. My one is 1944 and has the 4 rivets in the handguard. Good looking one! If you need further information to the Carbine, look at here Military Surplus Collectors Forums
The guys at there are really good and can divide good ones from scrap or faked ones. I´m a member at there if i can do anything, let me know!

BTW: Sorry for the gunrights i didn´t knew that.
Regards, Ulrich

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem!" LtGen. Chesty Puller.

#7 George Patton

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:04 PM

[quote name='formerjughead']Standard Valuation Disclaimer:

This is not a valuation site; we are not in the habit of assessing values or proving authenticity of purchases.

[/QUOTE]



OK, just asking. I trust the most of the members here when dealing with an historic gun more than I would on a firearms forum. Also (although my original message doesn't really show it), I am interested in learning more about the IBM-made M1s (I think they were the 2nd rarest manufacturer, after Rock-Ola), and as such they are a bit more collectible. I can find a "normal" M1 for a cheaper price, but I am drawn to this particular one for its historical value, hence me posting the question on a forum that has many militaria collectors.



[quote name='formerjughead']IBM only made 350,000 +/- units during the production run of the M1 Carbine. It is not uncommon for weapons, which stayed in service, to be rearsenaled; a process in which parts are exchanged and replaced. Very often, during this process, parts are taken from unserviceable weapons and used to create servicable weapons or unservicable parts are outright replaced with new. During this process there is no care given to the manufacturer of the replacement parts; ergo: An M1 Carbine with an IBM barrel may contain parts from several M1 carbines from a variety of manufacturers or production periods and it may not be a 'Complete' M1 Carbine.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

As I said, I'll have to check the main components to see what is original and what is not. I have a fairly good idea of what markings should be where, so I'll see how this particular model matches up. The presence of a bayonet lug indicates to me that it was modified post-war (I believe this typically occurred in the early 50s) as very few WWII-era models came with it. Are there any particular features/markings that would indicate whether this carbine served with a foreign military? I know large numbers of M1s were exported post-war to various nations.
  • formerjughead likes this

Best Regards,
Alan


#8 George Patton

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:09 PM

First i thought it has the wrong upper handguard, but for the 1943 it is possible that it has the one with the two rivets. My one is 1944 and has the 4 rivets in the handguard. Good looking one! If you need further information to the Carbine, look at here Military Surplus Collectors Forums
The guys at there are really good and can divide good ones from scrap or faked ones. I´m a member at there if i can do anything, let me know!

BTW: Sorry for the gunrights i didn´t knew that.


There's nothing to be sorry about - you were trying to help me out! Thanks again for the heads-up. If not for the import regulations, I could be owning large collections of M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, etc for a fraction of the cost!

I'll check out that forum now.

Best Regards,
Alan


#9 Gebirgsjaeger

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:12 PM

Here is another source The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine Stocks & Handguards
Jim`s site is well made and he´s a very helpful guy. And if you need some advice, i have Bruce N. Canfield´s book " Complete guide to the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine".
Regards, Ulrich

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#10 formerjughead

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:22 PM

As I said, I'll have to check the main components to see what is original and what is not. I have a fairly good idea of what markings should be where, so I'll see how this particular model matches up. The presence of a bayonet lug indicates to me that it was modified post-war (I believe this typically occurred in the early 50s) as very few WWII-era models came with it. Are there any particular features/markings that would indicate whether this carbine served with a foreign military? I know large numbers of M1s were exported post-war to various nations.


I do not know for sure. There are some Carbines that saw postwar service with the Bavarian Police and those are very clearly marked on the rightside rear of the receiver. I would imagine any weapon that fell under 'traditional import export' would be clearly marked by the receiving authority. I would expect that any such weapon in Canada would be marked with the 'Broad Arrow' as it most likely came though Great Britain or was sold directly to the RCMP.

#11 Up From Marseille

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:53 PM

"(I think they were the 2nd rarest manufacturer, after Rock-Ola)"

Alan, Unquality was the rarest M1 carbine, roughly like the Holy Grail. I was lucky enough to find one in a used gun shop a couple of years ago. John

#12 luketdrifter

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 01:45 PM

If you ever find anyone willing to pay $2200 for a carbine please forward their address to me. I'll make them a great deal on a half dozen 1943 Russian rifles....only $500 a piece!
Kicking up dust since 1978

#13 George Patton

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:04 AM

I just wanted to let you guys know that I picked up that Carbine today. Everything looks to be in excellent condition. All the markings on the parts check out for WW2-era, with the exception of the bayonet lug. Thanks to everyone for the help.

Best Regards,
Alan


#14 Gebirgsjaeger

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:52 AM

Well made Alan! Hope it is a good shooter too!
Regards, Ulrich

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#15 2ndamendment

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:24 PM

I have just purchased an I.B.M. m1 carbine serial numeber 3658xxx the barrel says it was made on 08/1943. Any info would be great. also there are white numbers on the butt of the stock any things on that would be cool to!

#16 brndirt1

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:22 PM

Almost anything you wish to know about the M1 Carbine can be found here. Not only how many of each barrel and receiver were "mated", and how to read the marks.

Goto:

http://www.fulton-ar...m/<br /><br />And just to let you guys know, I'm NOT the Clint on this site. Wish I was.
Happy Trails,
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#17 2ndamendment

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:45 AM

thanks do you know any good reloading things i can get. i am new at this to, so i have no idea what most things mean.




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