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Lesser known facts...a history


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#1 Panzerknacker

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Posted 12 October 2002 - 09:53 AM

Please-I was looking at WW2 moments portrayed in art, and was wondering if anyone could share some histories here that arent as well known to people...thanyou all...
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

#2 Panzerknacker

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Posted 14 October 2002 - 01:23 AM

For instance, when Brigadier General Charles Canham ordered the surrender at Brest of Lieutenant General Bernhard Ramcke. No wanting to surrender to a subordinate officer, Ramcke asked Canham where are your credentials-Canham pointed his finger towards a fully armed squad of the US 8th Infantry Division and replied-"These Are My Credentials"
:D
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

#3 Carl G. E. von Mannerheim

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Posted 14 October 2002 - 03:49 AM

During the height of the Battle of Britain, Hermann Goering toured the Airfeild that was the Home of III/ JG 26, then commanded by Adolf Galland. Goering, dissapointed with his pilots' results asked "What do you need to acheive victory?"

Galland replied "Get me Spitfires for my wing!"

Galland was nearly sent to infantry, luckilY, Goering let it go, because Galland shot down 52 a/c during the battle.

Here's another one:

April 9th 1942,Bataan, an american artillery man and his buddy have just received word that the Americans have surrendered on Bataan. After 2 days of wondering the jungle, looking for a jap to surrender to, a disgruntled Jap finds them, he decided to take them to his CO. Upon their arrival, they are put in front of the CO, he begins to speak in Japanese, he was threatening to kill them if they didnt provide some information on other americans at large. Not being able to speak or understand Japanese, the atillery man shouts in desperation; "Spreichens ze Deutsch?!?!?!?!?!"

The commanding officer replies; "Jowhol!"

Those 2 americans survived the war.

ww2sig3a-1.jpg

With broken heart and bowed in sadness, but not in shame, I report to your Excellency that today I must arrange terms for the surrender of the fortified islands of Manila Bay… With profound regret and the continued pride in my gallant troops I go to meet the Japanese commander. Good-Bye, Mr. President. - Gen. Wainwright, May 5, 1942


#4 Panzerknacker

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Posted 14 October 2002 - 07:13 AM

Brigadier General Canham uses US 8th Infantry Division as credentials...
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

#5 Panzerknacker

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Posted 14 October 2002 - 07:14 AM

is this thing even working-or is it just my computer???
:confused: :confused: :confused:
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

#6 Ron

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Posted 14 October 2002 - 03:46 PM

I dunno about the ww2 art thing but when i get a chance i do have a book with many interesting facts and stories of ww2. I'llbe back ;)
Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

#7 Friedrich

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Posted 20 October 2002 - 08:20 PM

http://www.dhm.de/le...e/pict/f60_151/

General der Infanterie Karl Heinrich von Stülpnagel was very into the July plot against Hitler in July 1944. He had ordered to arrest 1.500 SS and party members that day. But when things started going wrong Von Kluge mentioned Von Stülpnagel and he was called to Berlin. In the way there, travelling by car, he and his chofer. Von Stülpnagel asked his chofer to stop, that he had to pee or something. He walked deep into the old battle fields of Verdun, where he had served and been wounded some years before. Just a shot was heard. Unfortunately, the bullet did not kill him but did injure him a lot. He was arrested and attended by doctors. While he was delirating he couldn't avoid yelling Rommel's name over and over again. Then, the field marshall, the "desert fox" became a suspicious man too. Von Stülpnagel was executed a month later, when he recovered.
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

#8 Ron

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Posted 21 October 2002 - 04:58 AM

Any information i post here is from the book Dirty Little Secrets of World War II by James F. Dunnigan and Albert A. Nofi.

80% of the men born in the Soviet Union in 1923 did not survive the war.

The US M-3 Tank was quickly developed and thrown into combat. However the tank was a debacle. a 37 mm gun was in a it's own small turret but that gun was frequently ineffective on German Tanks not to mention a restricted range. The larger gun...a 75mm gun, the gun the tank was designed to carry was directly conected to the tank and thus one had to move the tank to aim. The odd two cannon configuration made the tank way too high and an obviose target. When hit but shells, even one's that didn't penetrate the rivots would blow out and killed crew like bullets. The Grant was taken out of service as fast as possible with the M-4 Sherman.

i'll have more...
Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

#9 Kai-Petri

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 06:41 PM

Extermination of Jewish Communities in Europe During the Holocaust (Partial List)

Examples:

Babi Yar, Ukraine

30,000 murdered

Chemielek, Pland

5,908 murdered

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Death Camps and Jewish Deaths (Partial listing)


Auschwitz 1.6 million
Bergen-Belsen 50,000
Buchenwald 60,000-65,000
Dachau 35,000
Nordhausen 8,125
Flossenburg 27,000
Gross-Rosen 105,000
Mauthausen 120,000
Ravensbruch 92,000
Theresienstadt 33,430
Sachsenhausen 105,000

------

Enemies of the State--Exterminations

European Jews 5,6000,000 to 6,250,000
Soviet Prisoners 3,000,000
Polish Catholics 3,000,000
Serbians 700,000
Roma (Gypsies) 222,000 to 250,000
Political prisioners, journalists, teachers, activists 80,000
Handicapped & alcoholics 70,000
Homosexuals 12,000
Jehovah Witnesses 2,500

http://www.buttonproject.com/facts.php

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Pics of Muslim SS troops

http://www.srpska-mr...anjar-book.html

http://www.srpska-mr...ts/himmler.html

http://www.srpska-mr...ts/muf-han.html

http://www.srpska-mr...ts/han-arm.html

From:

http://www.srpska-mr...cts/hanjar.html

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#10 Kai-Petri

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Posted 09 November 2002 - 08:09 PM

There was some talk on De Gaulle going for the Blitzkrieg strategy in the 1930´s :

A study on military theory, Vers l'armée de métier (1934; The Army of the Future), defended the idea of a small professional army, highly mechanized and mobile, in preference to the static theories exemplified by the Maginot Line, which was intended to protect France against German attack

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The De Gaulle speech on 18 June 1940 for Free France from London:

The leaders who, for many years past, have been at the head of the French armed forces, have set up a government.
Alleging the defeat of our armies, this government has entered into negotiations with the enemy with a view to bringing about a cessation of hostilities. It is quite true that we were, and still are, overwhelmed by enemy mechanized forces, both on the ground and in the air. It was the tanks, the planes, and the tactics of the Germans, far more than the fact that we were outnumbered, that forced our armies to retreat. It was the German tanks, planes, and tactics that provided the element of surprise which brought our leaders to their present plight.
But has the last word been said ? Must we abandon all hope ? Is our defeat final and irremediable ? To those questions I answer ? No !
Speaking in full knowledge of the facts, I ask you to believe me when I say that the cause of France is not lost. The very factors that brought about our defeat may one day lead us to victory.
For, remember this, France does not stand alone. She is not isolated. Behind her is a vast Empire, and she can make common cause with the British Empire, which commands the seas and is continuing the struggle. Like England, she can draw unreservedly on the immense industrial resources of the United States.
This war is not limited to our unfortunate country. The outcome of the struggle has not been decided by the Battle of France. This is a world war. Mistakes have been made, there have been delays and untold suffering, but the fact remains that there still exists in the world everything we need to crush our enemies some day. Today we are crushed by the sheer weight of mechanized force hurled against us, but we can still look to a future in which even greater mechanized force will bring us victory. The destiny of the world is at stake.
I, general de Gaulle, now in London, call on all French officers and men who are at present on British soil, or may be in the future, with or without their arms ; I call on all engineers and skilled workmen from the armaments factories who are at present on British soil, or may be in the future, to get in touch with me.
Whatever happens, the flame of French resistance must not and shall not die.

http://www.c-de-gaul.../1940_06_18.htm

---

Philippe de HAUTECLOQUE, known as LECLERC (pseudonym Leclerc so as to spare his family in France any reprisals)

Born on 28 November 1902 in Belloy-Saint-Léonard (Somme). During the battle of France he was twice captured but escaped and joined de Gaulle (July 1940). At Kufra (Fezzan), he swore an oath not to lay down his arms until the French flag flew over Metz and Strasbourg once again. He led his division from Chad to Tripoli (December 1942-February 1943). As commander of the 2nd Armoured Division, he landed in Normandy and was the first to enter Paris where he received the surrender of von Choltitz (25 August 1944), then went on to liberate Strasbourg (23 November 1944).He died in a plane crash near Colomb Béchar on 28 November 1947. He was awarded the rank of Marshal of France on 23 august 1952´.

The path followed by Leclerc's army is one of the greatest epics of French Military history. . The group of 24 men who reached Douala in dug-out canoes on the night of 26/8/40 became the 2nd Armored Division with 16,000 men rushing into Germany on 7/8/45. The troops of the Free French Army were spurred by the overall mission set by their leader, General Leclerc, to recapture France from the ennemy and liberate Paris.

The Liberation of Paris was the pinnacle of 5 years of battles and forced marches through the deserts of Africa. It was the achievement that the men of the 2nd Armored Division had dreamt of since its creation in Africa. Leclerc speech after the victory of the battle of Kufra on 2/3/41 promised: "Let's swear not to lay down our arms until our colours, our beautiful colours float on the Cathedral of Stasbourg". The "Oath of Kufra" as it is known, was to be realised and Paris was the crown to collect on the way.

The operation at Koufra was a show of will as well:
Under the command of French Colonel Leclerc a force of 400 men left Tchad, traversed 500 kilometres of rocks and sand, to attack 1,200 Italians that occupied the Koufra basin with its 6 oasis. Between 9 and 28 February 1941, the small French force besieged the area's strongpoint, the fortress of El Tag, until its surrender.

;)
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#11 Friedrich

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Posted 10 November 2002 - 09:47 PM

Also, did you know that Hermann Göring's stepfather was Jewish and that he was raised inside a luxorious casttle in Prussia, owned by this Jewish man?
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

#12 Kai-Petri

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Posted 15 November 2002 - 12:22 PM

Italians in BoB. You bet! Ha haa, unbelievable but true :

The Falco and Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain.

One of the least well documented episodes of the Battle of Britain concerns the activities of Corpo Aereo Italiano (CAI) when during the late stage of the battle the Regia Aeronautica was instructed to establish a force in Belgium to assist in operations against the British.Participation of the Regia Aeronautica at the end of the Battle of Britain was viewed as a political necessity - yet it was unwanted by the German High Command ( :rolleyes: ).

CAI came into being on 10 September 1940, under the aegis of 1a Squadra Aerea di Milano. Generale sa (Air Marshal) Rino Corso-Fougier was made Air Officer Commanding.
There where three Stormi (roughly a RAF Wing). Two of these were bombers and were the striking force, self-protection being provided by the fighter Stormo. With the transport element (twelve Caproni 133Ts, one Savoia-Marchetti S.75, with nine Ca164s for communications) a force of some two hundred aircraft.
On 22 October the CAI is finally complete in Belgium.Zone of operations allocated to the Italians was bounded by the parallels 53oN and 01oE. The worthwhile targets were along the coast between the Thames and Harwich including the estuaries of the Orwell and Stour. In fact there is a single unconfirmed report of only one inland attack and that on Canterbury.

Operations commenced on October 24 with a night bombing raid on Felixstowe and Harwich, twelve BR.20Ms of 13o Stormo and six from 43o Stormo taking part.

On 16 April 1941 20o Gruppo took off from their base to fly back to Italy and further on to Libya.
-------

Another operation that took place by late 1940 was the infamous Corpo Aereo Italiano (C.A.I.). The propaganda operation designed to have Italian aircraft operating against the RAF on the Channel was ill conceived and conducted and showed at full the defects and the approximation of the Regia Aeronautica. The FIAT CR. 42s operating with C.A.I. were fifty, belonging to 18° Gruppo. On 10/19/40 they transferred on to the Belgian airfield of Ursel. The first action took place on 10/29, when 39 CR.42s escorted the Br.20s over Ramsgate. On 11/11 the bombers were escorted over Harwich by 40 CR.42s but were intercepted by Spitfires and Hurricanes causing the loss of three CR.42s, while another nineteen were forced to crash-land in Belgium due to lack of fuel caused by the combat. The last action of November took place on the 29th between Margate and Folkstone with a combat against Spitfires that caused the loss of two more CR.42s (the British losses are still uncertain, if any). On 1/10/41 the CR.42s began to come back to Italy. Lack of heating equipment, open cockpits, primitive radio sets, in addition to an absolute lack of navigational capacities of the Italian pilots (a specific training was undertaken only after 1942) transformed this operation in a real nightmare for those involved!

http://www.comandosu...o.com/Air1.html


http://www.dalnet.se...y/falco_bob.htm

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#13 Kai-Petri

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Posted 18 November 2002 - 03:13 PM

Once again the stupidity of Goering proven:

The most blatant example of taking training aircraft for front line operations was during the airlift at Stalingrad in the winter of 1942. Due to the Red Army surrounding the German 6th army at Stalingrad, Goering proposed using the Luftwaffe to supply the trapped army with supplies. The amount needed meant that ``it would take 1050 Ju-52s [the standard transport]... At that time there were only about 750 Ju-52s in the entire Luftwaffe'' (Mitcham p 186). To make up the difference, the Luftwaffe would have to suddenly create 300 transport aircraft. ``Goering reacted to the situation in his typical manner: he stripped the Training Command of 600 aircraft, plus its best instructors and crewmen'' The gamble did not work and in any attempt the worst was still to come. The Russian ground advances and fighter attacks meant that the trainer aircraft along with transport aircraft were slaughtered. ``It lost 488 transport aircraft alone... Germany had lost well over half of its Ju-52 transport fleet, as well as the majority of its experienced crews and many of its instructor pilots'' (Mitcham p. 193). This was no way to keep any type of a training system active.
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UNBELIEVABLE STUFF.... :eek:

http://www.caselab.o...rojects/lf.html
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#14 Kai-Petri

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Posted 18 November 2002 - 08:47 PM

Interested in crashed WW2 planes? In Lapland? Check this!

http://www.sci.fi/~junkers/lentokE.htm

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#15 PzJgr

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Posted 18 November 2002 - 09:23 PM

That was interesting Kai. Thanks.
Stug2.jpg

 


#16 Kai-Petri

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Posted 19 November 2002 - 10:04 AM

Walter Nowotny´s story July 1941

"One of the highest scoring German aces (an Austrian, actually) almost ended his flying career very early. Flying a Bf 109 in July 19, 1941, he had shot down three Polikarpov I-153 biplanes (his first three kills), when he went down too. He ditched his Messerchmitt in the Gulf of Riga and clambered into his one-man survival raft. With no food or drink, he paddled southwards, towards land that he estimated to be about 40 miles away. A couple German fighters flew overhead, but didn't notice his Mauser pistol shots. Sunburn set in, waves splashed into his dinghy, and he became exausted from his paddling.
On his second night adrift, two Soviet destroyers passed close by, but didn't notice him either. He was somewhat heartened by the evidently-German artillery fire directed at the Russian warships. But by the second day, he became nearly suicidal, and even began writing a "farewell message." He fell asleep, and when he awoke on the third day, the currents had brought him close to shore. He paddled towards it, landed, and collapsed on the sandy beach. He awoke in a bed; two Latvian auxiliaries (collaborators?) had rescued him."
---------

Later on he used those "lucky" jump suit trousers
(?) whenever he went on a mission. Those trousers became a legend among his men!

:D
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#17 Kai-Petri

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Posted 19 November 2002 - 05:33 PM

"On 6th June 1943, Soviet pilot of 88IAP Alexander K. Gorovetz attacked a big group of the Stukas. His alone La-5 shot down 9 (nine!) Ju87s in single combat and forced all other bombers to chaotically drop bombs and to retreat. Ufortunately, he was out of ammo. And when four FW190s arrived, the hero was killed. So 9:1 during one mission is the world best score for a single fighter. These results were confirmed by ground troops which watched this bloody battle in the sky."

Ever heard of this? True or propaganda? I did not find this anywhere else in the net though, but that doesn´t prove it wrong.

http://wio.boom.ru/ww2a.htm

:confused: :eek:
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#18 Erich

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Posted 19 November 2002 - 06:04 PM

Impressive Kai if true ! There are a couple of German night fighter pilots that have tied this score and I beleive that several German day fighter pilots have bested this......now I know what the next question will be, so I am searching later for the actual amount and whom the pilots and crew are......
Case in point was the crew of "Toni" Martin Becker and his bordfänker, Dr. K. L. Johanssen. flying on March 14/15, 1945, a Ju 88G-6 coded 2Z+MF. A perfect bounce where Martin used his forward firing 4 2cm weapons. Kills were credited to the four man crew over Bad Berka, Weimar-Naumburg, 3 more over Naumberg and Jena. Martin used up his ammo on these 6 Lancasters and then his bordfünker shot down 2 Lancs north-east of Schwäbisch Hall, then had a radio fire. and while the other two crew members were putting this out, he shot down the other Lanc at 23.15 near Dagmar. The last kill the bordfunker shot down an RAF B-17 in the area TB- area of Crailsheim at 23.37 hours.
This all from an article I wrote for the Luftwaffe Verband some two years ago.....I interviewed Dr. Karl Ludwig Johanssen extensively. Another interesting note is when Martin became Gruppenkommandeur of IV./NJG 6 and equipped with the Ju 88G-6, his Junkers a/c were not equipped with schräge musik. He flew two different Ju's in this gruppe.

E
:aceofspades: E ~

#19 Erich

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Posted 19 November 2002 - 11:00 PM

Kai and others :

To follow along with my above post.

On the night of march 16/17, 1945 a huge air battle over the southern part of Germany, Oberleutnant Erich Jung with his crew shot down 8 Lancasters. One of them by the rear gunner with his single MG 151 .50...... from 21.12 hrs to 21.43 hours. Erich flying his Ju 88G-6 coded 4R+AN, was in 5./NJG 2 flying out of Mainz-Finthen. His final tally was 28 victories and he is still living last I heard.

E
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#20 Kai-Petri

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Posted 20 November 2002 - 10:36 AM

Now we are all sons of bitches."
-Kenneth Bainbridge, Director of the Trinity Project, to J. Robert Oppenheimer, seconds after the successful test of the first atomic bomb, July 16th, 1945

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On the narrow corridor that would carry the armored drive, there were five major bridges to take. They had to be seized intact by airborne assault. It was the fifth, crucial bridge over the lower Rhine at a place called Arnhem, sixty-four miles behind the German lines, that worried Lieutenant General Frederick Browning, Deputy Commander, First Allied Airborne Army. Pointing to the Arnhem bridge on the map he asked, "How long will it take the armor to reach us?" Field Marshal Montgomery replied briskly, "Two days." Still looking at the map, Browning said, "We can hold it for four." Then he added, "But, sir, I think we might be going a bridge too far."
-Major General Roy E. Urquhart, Arnhem

http://www.zipcon.ne...coolquotes.html
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#21 Kai-Petri

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Posted 20 November 2002 - 12:37 PM

From a book on the German help to Finland 1944 by Hannu Valtonen.

" A good example how much resources are wasted in war is the 750 kgs weighing torpedo LT F5 that´s dropped from an aeroplane. You need 51,3 kgs of Chrome, 114 kgs of aluminium, 78,6 kgs of led, 374 kgs of Copper."

" Also the development of the air fleet is quite expensive. The prices are Reichsmarks from 1941 for German planes. The Hurricane is from 1940 and Spitfire 1943.The American planes are from 1942. The prices are changed into Reichcsmarks for the year. The engines are included in the price and the last number tells how many times more the plane is worth than BF 109 E.

BF 109E / 85 970 RM / -
Me 110 C / 210 140 / 2,4
Do 17 Z / 235 000 / 2,7
He 111 H / 265 000 / 3,1
Ju 88 A / 306 950 / 3,5
Ju 87 B / 131 175 / 1,5
AR 196 A / 124 000 / 1,4
Ju 52 / 163 000 / 1,9

Hurricane / 160 000 / 1,4
Spitfire / 180 000 / 2,1

P-47 / 422 000 / 4,9
P-38 / 482 000 / 5,6
P-51 / 235 000 / 2,7
B-17 / 1 035 000 / 12
B-24 / 1 217 000 / 14,2
B-29 / 3 575 000 / 41,6

This shows that P-47 was quite expensive for one engine plane. AS well this could explain why Germans were not too fond of building big bombers, that would cost huge sums as well as the smaller bombers replacing them would save resources.

[ 20. November 2002, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: Kai-Petri ]
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#22 Kai-Petri

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Posted 21 November 2002 - 11:42 AM

Casualties
The first German bomb to fall on Leningrad during World War 2 killed the only elephant in the city's zoo.

Guerrillas in Armour
While guerrilla warfare usually centres around light, mobile forces, at least one guerrilla force has used tanks. These were Yugoslav partisans, who at first used captured Italian tanks against Italians and Germans using captured French tanks. By 1944, the partisans had 50 captured tanks in running condition. Later that year, the British supplied 56 light tanks and 24 armoured cars, which reached Yugoslavia in November of 1944. The Russians equipped a partisan unit with 65 T.34's, heavy tanks which caused the Germans much grief. When the Wehrmacht finally evacuated the Balkans, they had to do so in great haste, lest they be trapped by guerrilla armoured units--an unheard of situation.

Over there...
There were many "retreads" in the US army at the time of their advance across France in 1944-45. These were First World War veterans who had returned to the armed forces and were traversing the French countryside for a second time. There were a number of strange instances surrounding these troops:

The CO of an infantry regiment was examining a map of his area when he noticed some familiar names. He asked his aide "Major, any chance we can go around that town? Back in '18 I made some pretty tall promises to a young lady there, and I'd rather not run into her just now!"
A bunker in Lorraine was taken by American troops twice, once in each war. On one wall is scrawled a doughboy's name and a date in late 1918. Just below it appears the same name, this time dated 1944, and the inscription "This is the last time I want to be in this damned bunker!"

Smoking Cobras
When Adolf Hitler was warned that Brazil had joined the Allied cause and declared war on Germany, the Fuhrer laughed, and sneered, "Never! The Brazillians will fight Germany when cobras smoke pipes!". The Brazillians liked the sound of that, and promptly designed a divisional shoulder patch showing a cobra smoking a pipe. They named their infantry unit, "Cobras Fumenses", and sent them off to fight the Nazis in Italy.

http://www.geocities.../3351/misc.html

:D
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#23 Kai-Petri

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Posted 21 November 2002 - 12:00 PM

A nice site on exercise Tiger:

In World War 2 German listening posts were quite adept at cross bearings and finding locations based on the interception of radio signals. During the occupation of Holland, agents were quickly captured due to this expertise.

In 1944 German listening posts along the Atlantic Wall, France, picked up prolific signals emanating from American Forces in the South West of England. They were listening in on Exercise Tiger. Using Slapton Sands, the American Forces were about to practice for the D Day Landings at Utah Beach. Slapton Sands resembled Utah Beach in many ways including the cliffs which lay behind the 1800 year old shingle barrier and beach.

In 1943, 3000 local people and their animals and all their belongings had been evacuated from the Slapton and Torcross area for almost a year whilst the beach was used for practice landings. One old man committed suicide rather than leave his home. Live ammunition was being used and a local hotel was destroyed in the landings.

Operation Tiger involved 30,000 soldiers, including troops from the Infantry Division, 279th Combat Engineers and 70th Tank Battalion, US Army. Landing craft were used to deploy the soldiers, and their equipment, onto the beaches, were they were supposed to beat the enemy. A convoy of ships set sail from local ports, including Dartmouth and Plymouth. Escorts were provided by the Royal Navy. HMS Scimitar, a destroyer, was to take the lead and a corvette, HMS Azalea, bring up the rear. The first signs of anything going wrong was that HMS Scimitar was rammed and holed by another vessel and was ordered to remain in port. Nobody thought to inform the Commander of the operation of this fact. The convoy started without an escort and the corvette, HMS Azalea, had no radio contact with the Landing Craft - it was not deemed necessary!

As the convoy sailed into Start Bay, westernmost corner of Lyme Bay, German E Boats found them and opened fire on a defenceless convoy, killing 749 soldiers. This was the evening of 27 April 1944. German Intelligence had listened to the American radio traffic and dispatched 9 E Boats from their home port, Cherbourg, creating this large scale disaster. Landing Craft 507 and 531 were sunk, 289 was badly damaged. The losses were 4 times more than lost on D Day itself at Utah.

General Eisenhower ordered all bodies recovered, especially 10 personnel who had on their possession actual maps of the Utah Beach. All bodies were recovered, with the whole sorry episode hushed up the mission was still secure.

http://members.lycos...il/slapton.html
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#24 Kai-Petri

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Posted 22 November 2002 - 03:30 PM

Talking about losses that you can take.Check this 1944 stats for Russian planes´ losses...

List of losses in VVS Red Army(excluding PVO, VDV) in 1944

Bombers / Fighters
Did not
return
from sortie / 2999 / 2632

Shot down
in air
combat / 107 / 508

Shot down
by
AAA / 583 / 376

Damaged
on
airfield / 38 / 55

Accidents / 1141 / 2088

Weared / 2594 / 4452

Total
aircraft / 7462 / 10111

All total about 17 500 planes

:eek:

http://my.tele2.ee/a.../losses1944.htm
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#25 Kai-Petri

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Posted 23 November 2002 - 10:10 AM

World War II in Europe was nearly over when, on 26 March 1945, Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., Commander of the famous United States Third Army, ordered a Task Force from the Fourth Armored Division comprising 294 men and 53 vehicles and composed of Sherman tanks, light tanks, 105 millimeter assault guns, halftracks and jeeps to break through the German front lines at Ashaffenburg on a strange mission. Capt. Abraham Baum was in command of the Task Force whose mission was to head for Hammelburg, 60 miles away, and liberate the American officers who were imprisoned in Oflag XIIIB and bring back as many as they could.Patton's son-in-law Lt. Col. John Knight Waters was a prisoner there.

On 26 March the Fourth Armored Division Task Force, after a fierce artillery barrage and tank battle, crossed the Main River and blasted its way through the German lines at Ashaffenburg. It headed toward Hammelburg, 60 miles inside the German lines.
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It seems like the tanks got to them without much problem but once they were going back to the US lines thing got a bit complicated...

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None of us knew that hostile German troops were closing in on the Task Force returning to the American lines.

The column of tanks and other vehicles moved slowly through the dark woods along a narrow road until a log pile road block was spotted about 200 yards ahead.The Germans at the road block fired several bazooka or panzerfaust rockets at the column as we were turning around.

Later on the German tanks, tank destroyers and heavy guns cut loose with everything they had. The American tanks, halftracks and other vehicles were hit and many exploded in flames.. Capt. Baum ordered all drivers not to stop at road blocks but to fight their way back to the American lines destroying anything in the way. After Capt. Baum's order to move out, the onslaught by the Germans damaged or destroyed nearly all of the vehicles. Many went up in flames as their gas tanks exploded.

Before leaving, Capt. Baum found a halftrack with a radio and he tapped out his last message to the Fourth Armored Division Headquarters in Morse Code: "Task Force Baum surrounded, under heavy fire. Request air support."

When it appeared that the situation was hopeless, the men in the Task Force and the remaining liberated officers took off into the woods and some eventually made it back to the American lines. Most were recaptured as they went through the hostile German woods and countryside.

Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., "Old Blood and Guts," was soundly reprimanded by both Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower and Gen. Omar N. Bradley for the abortive attack on Hammelburg and the loss of the Task Force. He told correspondents that he did not know until nine days after the Task Force reached Hammelburg that his son-in-law was among the prisoners. He produced his private diaries and said he attempted to liberate the prison camp because they were afraid that the American prisoners might be murdered by the retreating Germans. Gen. Patton later admitted: "I can say this, that throughout the campaign in Europe I know of no error I made except that of failing to send a combat command to take Hammelburg. Otherwise, my operations were to me, strictly satisfactory."

http://www.milmag.co...les/hammelburg/
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