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Russian View of the Air War


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#1 Martin Bull

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:33 PM

Came across this site during my current reading about the Eastern Front Air War.

Some of the opinions are somewhat - how shall I say ? - biased ; but there are many excellent photos - and it's interesting to see another viewpoint.....

http://wio.ru/ww2a.htm
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#2 bigiceman

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 04:39 PM

Bam! another hour of my life disappears into the internet. Great article. It seems to me that the number of kills for the Russians is a lot higher than the other allies. Why do you think this is?
PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

#3 Kai-Petri

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 05:36 PM

I do have sensible respect for the Red Army for what they did in WW2 in all areas. But the "We won the WW2 on our own " mentality just don´t make me happy here....and actually nothing new...

Great pics though!
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#4 Friedrich

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:15 PM

What about 'We won 80% of the war', Kai? tongue.gif
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#5 TA152

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 12:05 AM

I don't know weather to thank you or strangle you Martin !! I guess Wednesday is shot to hell !
The picture of the Yak 4 looks like a Me-110 copy by the Russians. It is under Characteristics
Level Bombers
Yak 4
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#6 TA152

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 12:21 AM

The Viet Nam site is interesting also. You could be an ace being a SAM launcher.
http://wio.ru/korea/vietnam.htm
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#7 Kai-Petri

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 06:01 AM

Talking about attitude...

Read a bit on the start of cold war and one of the main things that the Communist propaganda said showed how evil the capitalist world is was:

"The ruthless city bombings..."

You didn´t guess this, did you?
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#8 Za Rodinu

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Kai-Petri:
But the "We won the WW2 on our own " mentality just don´t make me happy here...

You mean we didn't? Oops! :D

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#9 Za Rodinu

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 12:16 PM

Weel, this website does admit there WAS a Lend-Lease program, has this to say (quote):

* Lend-Lease was very helpful in 1941..42. Great Britain made the 1st steps to help

* Lend-Lease vehicles were worse than modern Soviets ones, but at the same time USSR also used even more obsolete tanks and planes

* Western people did theirs best. They even put warm clothes and tinned food into boxes with military equpment, using every free space

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#10 Kai-Petri

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 12:25 PM

Lend-Lease was very helpful in 1941..42.

Only 1941-1942 that is...? And later on not any good?

Lend-Lease vehicles were worse than modern Soviets ones

What´s that supposed to mean...?

:D :rolleyes:
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#11 bigiceman

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 02:15 PM

I think that is supposed to mean that, if there had been any working factories making any of the vehicles that were given to the Russians, they would have been better. Modern Soviet vehicles are far superior to anything capitalists could every conceive of let alone manufacture. The fact that everything is worse than modern designs are, has no bearing.
PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

#12 Kai-Petri

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 02:26 PM

Ok, thanx bigiceman, I took it too literally!
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#13 Martin Bull

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 02:36 PM

Reminds me of when I met a Russian woman a few years back. When we got onto WWII it was 'You guys didn't win it - we did !' etc but when I mentioned the German-Soviet pact I got a sharp look and change of subject..... :rolleyes:

I did say that it was biased - let's be honest, in past years the British and certainly the USA thought that they 'won' it, and now the Russians seem to be aggressively 'in your face' on the subject ( rather like anothe Baltic country I can think of, previously seen at these forums ! )

Hopefully, with a bit of luck, in years to come a sensible, balanced view may emerge - after all, it's only 60 years ago.... graemlins/no.gif I do agree that the Russian 'you lot did nothing' mentality is deeply irritating - my own reading at the moment with regard to the air war shows just how much the US/Luftwaffe battles drained the German resources from the Eastern Front, for instance.

( Pity we don't have any active Russian members on the forum - I think that Kai could have a really, er.. lively discussion ! tongue.gif )
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#14 bigiceman

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 03:04 PM

Just a few days ago there was a post about the lend lease contribution of trucks and other non-combat vehicles. Let's see if this link works for me.

lend lease vehicles to russia http://www.o5m6.de/main.html
PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

#15 TA152

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 04:42 PM

I was reading some of the links posted on this persons web page and found this one saying NATO was worse than Serbia in war crimes.
I hope everyone in that area of the world don't think like this guy.
http://wio.ru/anti/anti.htm
The link you found Martin sure is a gold mine for pictures though. graemlins/vc.gif
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#16 Martin Bull

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 04:47 PM

...even if it's only marginally more popular than a David Irving website...... :eek:
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#17 The_Historian

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Martin Bull:

Some of the opinions are somewhat - how shall I say ? - biased ;

Eh?! :eek:
And the WW2n award for the most diplomatic understatement of the year goes to........... ;) tongue.gif
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#18 Kai-Petri

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:55 AM

Martin,

as long as I can call my Polish friends to do the talking I needn´t make any comments if any active Russian members would appear...

:D
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#19 Martin Bull

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 10:43 AM

Well, it livened up the discussion a little !

BTW, Kai - what's that last medal you've been awarded ? tongue.gif :D
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#20 Kai-Petri

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:42 PM

Actually my latest medal should be the Mannerheim Cross (>7,000 postings ) but the updating system on medals seems to be out-of-work...
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#21 TA152

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 04:28 PM

I was thinking of sending the guy an e-mail and inviting him to the forums and commenting on the thread but I don't want to get banned. :D
If you guys think it is OK then I will do it.
KP, you are the boss man for this section, what do you think ?
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#22 Erich

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 06:53 PM

Ta, please don't ...........as I would have to start digging through my resources to crunch the guys pride and I don't have time for that right now........too many night fighter projects in the works
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#23 Kai-Petri

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 05:05 AM

Sorry TA,

I must say it´s not worth it. We´ve seen earlier what happens; a lot of quarrel yes but in the end nobody has changed his view a bit and actually everybody is more or less angrier and nobody has learned anything new...I don´t think it´s worth it. Let´s just enjoy the pics of that site!
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#24 Martin Bull

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 05:22 AM

Yes - the thought of another Polish-style punch-up is too much to bear. :rolleyes:

It would be good at some stage if a 'sensible' Russian joined up to add an interesting different perspective to the Forums..... graemlins/hsu.gif
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

#25 Za Rodinu

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Martin Bull:
It would be good at some stage if a 'sensible' Russian joined up to add an interesting different perspective to the Forums..... graemlins/hsu.gif

Well, you can always count on your resident ersatz :D

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