Posted 16 October 2001 - 05:12 AM
This is a directive the Japanese War Ministry in Tokyo issued to all POW commandants. Regarding what to do with prisoners when the front lines came too close.
"when the battle situation becomes urgent the POWs will be concentrated and confined in their location and kept under heavy guard until preparations for the final disposition will be made. Although the basic aim is to act under superior orders, individual disposition may be made in [certain] circumstances.
Whether they be destroyed individually or in groups, and whether it is accomplished by means of mass bombing, poisonous smoke, poisons, drowning, decapitation, dispose of them as the situation dictates. It is the aim not to allow the escape of a single one, to annihalate them all, and not to leave any traces"
This was known in the Tokyo war crimes trial as the "August 1 Kill-All-Order"
also 25-28 percent of all POWS held by Japan died...in contrast germany was 1-3 percent.
Posted 16 October 2001 - 05:31 PM
Whats even worse is, that in japan today (at least from what I have heard and read) that they do not mention war crimes that their some of their opas committed, its PURPOSEDLY left out of THEIR history books
Posted 16 October 2001 - 11:35 PM
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Ron ]
Posted 17 October 2001 - 01:40 AM
Posted 18 March 2002 - 11:25 AM
The Jap Medical unit was a sick group of people.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett
Posted 18 March 2002 - 08:09 PM
Posted 19 March 2002 - 02:26 AM
Posted 19 March 2002 - 04:38 AM
Which is why I have nothing going for japanese vets. I do respect a FEW japanese vets as they all were not bad people--but waaaaay toooo many simply went along and did many dirty things just to have some fun--such as using their swords to play decapitation "games" with POWs. Germans did not do that--(with the vast majority of allied POWs excluding Russians)and is partly why I have so much more respect for former German soldiers than I do for former japanese soldiers.<hr></blockquote>
hmmmm i have to say though, even i would argue with that logic. See you have a point in regards to how well germans treated allied prisoners. But how well did certain germans treat Russian prisoners and populous? How well did germans treat their own jewish people and other "undesirables" as well as those same people from other countries? or how did germans deal with resistance groups? i think you know the answers.
Now did EVERY german soldier do this? Of course not! BUT i really loose ALOT of respect for german vets in general. because i just don't know if this certain german vet did nothing but fight bravely or rape a russian woman, execute suspected resistence fighters or round up jewish people for deportation.
same thing holds true to the japanese vets...were they all bad? Of course not!...but the fact that i don't know if this particular vet did nothing but fight bravly or decapitate a prisoner makes me loose a lot of respect for them.
If i was in the company of german or japanese vets i would respect them...but i surely wouldn't hold them with any reverence. unless i found out what their role in the war was. So thats my two sense, no offense
Posted 20 March 2002 - 01:46 AM
For instance, the percentage of death rates in comparison. I think the Germans pows death rate was somewhere around 5 to 6 percent--compared to the 35% or so of the death rates of pows under the tender care of the japanese.
Certainly more starvation and beatings occurred by japanese hands than by German hands. Medical treatment was almost nil--from the japanese, while the Germans took enough care to put pows in even civilian hospitals.
Case in point: Currently I am in touch with a man who was an American fighter pilot who was shotdown over Holzkirchen Airfield in early 1945. To this day--Bob (the US pilot) is searching for the German officer who kept him as a guest in his quarters for 3 days-hiding him from the SS and Gestapo. This German Officer risked his own neck by getting Bob away from the area and into a hospital to have his injuries tended. I am mainly in contact with his sister--Mrs Anne Hobbs.
Erich Brown knows who I am talking about and probably knows more about this than I do--as he has been in touch with these good people in the past.
I also know from what I learned about my own Grandfather--several German and American vets--and some descendants to crewmembers of U 181 and the SS Fort Lee. I simply have too many positive accounts of Germans correctly treating allied POWs--and usually directly from the pows themselves to be able to harbor any ill will towards the Germans as a whole.
I left out the Germans mistreatment of russian pows because of the fact that it being wellknown but also do tom the fact that the Germans ad Russians fought a much different war than the Germans and the Western Allies did.
I by no means meant that the mistreatment of God knows how many Russian pows (by German hands) should be forgotten--I will never forgive the Germans for that--nor for the "Jewish Final Solution" nor for the Malmedy Massacre or the Massacre of about 100 British soldiers in that barn in what was it--in France or Belgium by some Waffen SS wacko.
Simply--the Germans treated Western allied pows much better than their japanese counterparts.
Perhaps I generalized too many japanese soldiers in my statement, but I still stand by what I said. I will never forgive the japanese for bombing Pearl Harbor--nor for the Bataan Death March. There are other things I could list as well against both Germans and japanese but to keep it shorter (if possible).
I DEFINATELY respect your opinion about Germans as I hope mine is about the Japanese. I have way too much in common and know appx 600 German vets to be able to think of them differently than I do.
I admit--I know very few japanese vets and I cannot put all of them into the same catagory as all being evil--totALLY wrong and impossible to do so. I do know that many allied pow was starved needlessly by the japanese and NOT given medical treatment when needed or at all. I do know the situation was much better for a Western Ally to be a pow of the Germans.
No offense meant Ron
Posted 20 March 2002 - 02:26 AM
Posted 20 March 2002 - 03:04 AM
I guess my point was both army's did pretty nasty stuff. and thus i looked down upon both sides for it.
hey it's nice to disagree with someone and still have a good discussion hehe see ya later Carl
Posted 20 March 2002 - 04:21 PM
BTW, Japan is not permitted to have any armed forces according to its constitution, but Japan has the third-largest "defence" budget in the world.
Posted 21 March 2002 - 01:29 AM
Great post Andreas
Posted 21 March 2002 - 07:13 AM
One big reason why more were not charged with war crimes was the tricky question as to whether or not their Emperor should be tried. However he was thought to be essential as an authority for post-war obedience and reconstruction. So he wasn't
Posted 29 April 2002 - 11:47 AM
One famous story is that a simple RAAF fighter pilot flying a Beaufighter against Japanese Coastal Shipping in Rabaul i think it was, he was shot down and taken prisoner by several Jap soldiers, an officer assumed control of him.
Within an hour, he was blindfolded, made to kneel, and beheaded.
Where is the justice.?????
I know of one repugnant incident when a U-Boat skipper machine-gunned survivors in the water. One Incident!!!
The Japs did this as a matter of course.
And look back to Pearl Harbor---tehy strafed men in the water for hours!!!!
Sorry but this really gets me mad
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett
Posted 01 May 2002 - 01:08 AM
All war crimes are senseless.
We all know that when war crimes are being talked about--that VERY unfairly--mainly German soldiers are being talked about--villianized--and the only ones being accused-of committing war crimes. We all know that that is a big falsehood. Im ny humble opinion--anyone from any nation cought in the act of a war crime--should be shot on the spot.
I know too many German vets--to ever think of but just a very minority of ww2 German soldiers as being a bad person--same goes for American vets. My experiances and time I spend with German vets--only goes to prove to me that they are just like the average American G.I., the average British Tommy--Australian or Canadian soldier--as im sure there was a nice large number of very correct and decent japanese soldiers.
The thing that really irks me about the japanese soldiers conduct--is that many really had a sad lacking of--the correct conduct. They were tought never to surrender--and with captured enemies--that they were cowardly subhumans and dealt with as they saw fit. I think mainly for Germans mistreatment of Russian soldiers stems from many things.
For instance: the War on the Eastern Front being much larger in scale--more intense--they had to have a different way to fight it.
Now to compare the Germans soldiers conduct on the Eastern Front with that of a movie I just watched yesterday--3rd time.
I just watched Black Hawk Down yesterday--again, and it made me think about a few things like:
I can understand why the war between the Germans and the Russians was much more brutal and NOT for prejudiced reasons.
In the movie I watched--there are many scenes of G.I.s being shot in the back--not from running away--but holding their ground. The comparison I make is: I see much more clearly now--why the war was much more brutal on the Eastern Front because, had I been a German soldier at that time--and witnessed the backstabbings--throats being slit on sentrys--etc--by the Russians or Partisans--. Having been tired of my comrades being killed in such a way--I would become incensed with anger--and would want to avenge the killings of my comrades.
Had I been there in Mogadishu, and seen what was happening to my comrades--I dont think I could have restrained my feelings very well and cut loose on the somali militiamen. It really sickens me and ticks me off to see(as had actually happened) the somali militiamen, stripping the dead G.I.s and dragging their bodies through the streets like the uncivilized madmen that the somalis were.
I dont know if anyone remembers that helocopter that was shot down in Iran back in 1979-1980--in which either 8 or 18 US servicemen were killed, their bodies stripped naked--ropes tied on them--dragged through the streets. If that wasnt enough--many of the iranian trash--threw stones at their bodies--spit on them, and tried to rip their bodies to shreds with their fingernails--I can NEVER forgive those pieces of trash responsible for that crime. This was all filmed by iranian media--and seen over here.
I have no troubles in seeing why the war was much more uncivilized in the East--and hold absolutely nothing, against any German soldier who tried to defend himself. I know sever East Front vets whom i am also friends with. Knowing these vets like I do--I cant ever seeing these men as doing more than their duty--and to do wat it takes to stay alive and to keep their comrades alive.
I fully agree with you Andreas--Richard and Ryan.
Posted 03 May 2002 - 01:44 AM
Posted 03 May 2002 - 05:24 AM
Although i have to say..i think there really is no problem in liking german weapons, or japanese ones for that matter. for as long as the people don't embrace or defend axis philosophies and actions then everything is fine. the equipment didn't do the deeds...the people did the deeds.
People are facinated by the axis...even me in a sense. It's perfectly fine to study the axis and their equipment.
Also when people talk about axis vets...they really are not defending what they fought for...they are just understanding that they did suffer nonetheless. They respect the german or japanese man who went out for his country not the war criminal of course.
Maybe you should read "The Forgotten Soldier" It is about a german soldier who fights on the eastern front. He commits no atrocities. and suffers a great deal. Now in no way do you feel what he was fighting for was good...what the book showed me...was that there really were many MANY good germans who were fighting for survival and because they were drafted, or simply because of their country. I learned that these people though misguided through mountains of propaganda were indeed human and had feelings (not counting the war criminals) I learned they were not proud of what they fought for later on..but they were proud they fought honorably at least. It's a very interesting book..you read it and you forget he is a "bad guy"(german) because they act and say the same kind of things americans would say...and when in battle i actually find myself hoping he is ok and cheering when something goes his way...but then you realize...wait he's the enemy. Then I realized how tragic the war was. It is sobering.
[ 03 May 2002, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Ron ]
Posted 03 May 2002 - 05:18 PM
There were more like 400,000 Americans Killed in WW2 with abot 90,000 still missing in action.
The Axis were responsible for millions of killings and other related deaths--not 60 million. The Russians alone were responsible for at least 50 million, the Germans and japs--not even half that number.
I can compare German behavior with that of the American, British and Frainch, because for the most part--MOST German soldiers in ww2; were as decent as any G.I. or any Tommy.
I personally know many many vets from both sides, and I certainly do believe them in what they say to me--THEY were there--I was not. Who am I NOT to believe what I am told????
I KNOW for a fact that, yes nazism was fully supported........but only by about 10% or less of the German population. In ww2, Germany had a population of some 80 million souls. The nazi party at its highest peak, only had maybe 6 million members. Not much really considering the number of people living there.
Its true that many military men were members of the nazi party--but nowhere near a high percentage of German soldiers were ever in the nazi party.
If one was a member of the Allgemeine SS ((General SS)) (the guys who marched around in the all black uniforms) these all were members of the nazi party. These guys were what you could call "Political Soldiers" and were looked down upon by most of the members of the Wehrmacht and were very disliked. The Waffen SS ((Armed SS)) were the ones who did the fighting on the front lines. At first--the Wehrmacht hated them as well. As the war went on--even the most devout of SS haters--began to really respect them for their fighting abilities. More often than not, regulas Heer units wanted a Waffen SS unit near tham instead of a brother Heer unit--as they knew these men were the Elite of the elite.
Yes, the Waffen SS had nazis in their ranks--but only about 6% were nazis--about equal or less--than the percentage of all Germans were.
As for branches of the Wehrmacht like the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe--if a person was in the nazi party and wanted to join one of these services--it was required that he resign from the nazi party before he was allowed to join--A VERY famous case in point: Uboat Ace and later, West German Navy Admiral and Admiral in the United Nations forces: Erich Topp, was a member of the nazi party--but resigned in order to be in the Kriegsmarine. Another famous case in point: Otto Kretschmar--another top scoring uboat ace, was once a nazi party member--but resigned so he could join the German Navy.
As a fellow American--I do agree with you. But as Paul Harvey would say: "Thats the rest of the story". What I just mentioned up there. smile.gif
I forgot to mention, I personally know a man who was a nazi in ww2--a member of the Belgian nazi party and member of the Waffen SS.
This man and I are personal friends--I had visited with him and his wife when I was in Germany in late 2000.
This man was in Sturmbrigade Langemarck--was stationed on the Leningrad Front. He is also only about 5 feet 2 inches tall, but is as brave as any American Medal of Honor Recipient, or as brave as any member of the British Empire who was awarded the Victoris Cross, or the George Cross, as brave as any Frainch who won the Croix de Guerre with Palm, as brave as any Russian soldier to win the Hero of the Soviet Union or the Order of the Red Banner. This man is a Knights Cross Recipient.
One did NOT get to be a Knights Cross Recipient, if he was a cold-blooded killer. This man who was wounded 5 times--cut off and alone behing russian lines for 3 days--no food--no water--no medical care and no help--single-handedly knocked out 17 Russian T-34 and JS-1 tanks--and conservatively, killed 100 russian infantry who tried to kill him.
He was a Belgian nazi--but no murderer. I certainly do not agree with nazi beliefs--nor condone any but, did you know that if it were not for Hitler--such things as the German National Autobahn system would not have been created, bridges would not have been built--nor national parks created--just like Roosevelt did here in the US--with the Conservation Corps. They created national parks--built highways etc.
Not meant to just single you out Walt-but I hope that in reading this--that you can understand where many people stand--and many more are beginning to understand--what had happened. Im not saying you do not--but just making sure you do see that every story has 2 sides.
Before anyone can make a final judgement on anything--you HAVE to look at both sides of the story first. I have, and many many times. smile.gif
[ 03 May 2002, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]
Posted 03 May 2002 - 06:14 PM
Posted 04 May 2002 - 03:13 AM
I think that part of my anger is because when I look at the world, it's like world war two has taught us NOTHING !......Im sure you guys have noticed the amazing paralells in whats happining right now, and the events that lead up to ww11. We dont seem to have progressed much in the last sixty years......anyway I did not mean to run on like this. You are a great bunch of guys. The way you answered my last post proves that.....Walt
Posted 04 May 2002 - 03:26 AM
Posted 04 May 2002 - 07:46 PM
Also, dont worry about making "angry" postings--many of us have here at times--myself included more than a few times.
Dont worry about misspelled words--im also the "King of misspelled words" on these forums.
Your right--these guys ARE a great bunch of guys. smile.gif
Posted 05 May 2002 - 08:14 PM
Well that's just the straw that broke the camels back! tongue.gif
Originally posted by WALT:
Ron...I missed spelled your name (boy, thats a surprise !)...I think I put Don, and of course I meant Ron...sorry.....Walt
heh heh s'ok
Posted 12 November 2002 - 01:16 PM
The Knights of Bushido: the Shocking History of Japanese War Atrocities
by Lord Edward Fredrick Russell, Dutton, 1958. Companion volume to his The Scourge of The Swastika.
Some items from the book.
Jan 1942. Dutch naval POWs taken to the spot where their ship had fired on a Japanese destroyer, decapitated and thrown into the the sea.
16Feb42. British evacuees from Singapore on the island of Bauka surrendered to a Japanese detail. The 26 soldiers were executed, the 22 Army nurses were marched into the sea and machine gunned, the twelve stretcher cases were bayoneted. -- Story told by the surviving nurse, who, though shot, was washed ashore.
March 1942. Kota Radja, Indonesia. Dutch prisoners put on a barge, towed out to sea, shot and thrown overboard.
7 Oct 43. Wake Island. On the order of RAdm Sakibara, 96 prisoners were blindfolded, hands tied behind their backs and massacred.
Oct 1944. New Guinea. A battalion commander confessed after the war, "I asked if I could get an American POW and kill him." Two were delivered, blindfolded, stabbed with a bayonet and decapitated with shovels.
12 Nov 44. New Britain. US fighter pilot made a forced landing. Beheaded, flesh cut form his body, cut into small pieces, fried and served to a large group of officers.
14 Dec 44. Palawan, Philippines. About 100 army and 50 marines had been warned if the US invades, they would be killed. When American planes attacked, Lt. Sato led 50 soldiers to pour buckets of gasoline on the entrances to shelters and ignite it. As the men came out they were bayoneted, shot or clubbed. -- Told by one of five survivors who escaped over a fence, though shot in the leg.
12 Nov 45. Guam. The flesh of LTjg H___, aviator, was served to an infantry battalion. [ The Japanese order for this communion-like sacrifice was captured.]
Nanking, China. Over 200,000 Chinese men used for bayonet practice, machine gunned, or set on fire. Thousands more were murdered. 20,000 women and girls were raped, killed or mutilated. The massacre of a quarter million people was an intentional policy to force China to make peace. It did not happen. World opinion, which until this time had accepted modern Japan's desire to oversee backward China, was repelled in horror.
Korean Comfort Women "forced by the Imperial Japanese Army to repeatedly provide sex for Japanese soldiers throughout Asia are said to number between 80,000 and 200,000. Many of the victims were underage at the time, and either died in despair or suffered health impairments.
Malaya. Japanese troops decapitated 200 wounded Australians and Indians left behind when Australian troops withdrew through the jungle from Muar.
Singapore. Japanese soldiers bayonet 300 patients and staff of Alexandra military hospital 9 Feb 1942. British women had their hands behind their backs and repeatedly raped. All Chinese residents were interviewed and 5,000 selected for execution.
Wake Island. A construction crew of 1,200 mostly Idaho youths, captured when Wake Island fell, were shipped to Japanese prison camps. Five were beheaded to encourage good behavior on the trip. The Japanese decided to keep 100 of the civilian contractors on the island to complete the airbase, which became functional in 1943 . When US Navy planes attacked the island, the Japanese commander executed the civilians.
Dutch East Indies. Those Dutch accused of resisting Japan or participating in the destruction of the oil refineries had arms or legs chopped off. 20,000 men were forced into the ocean and machine gunned. 20,000 women and children were repeatedly raped, then many were killed.
Dutch Borneo. The entire white population of Balikpapan was executed.
Java. The entire white male population of Tjepu was executed. Women were raped.
Survivors of USS Edsall (DD-219) are beheaded.
Philippines. Any soldier captured before the surrender was executed.
The Bataan Death March -- 7,000 surrendered men died. Those that could not keep up the pace were clubbed, stabbed, shot, beheaded or buried alive.
Once the prison camp had been reached, disease, malnutrition and brutality claimed up to 400 American and Filipinos -- each day.
Thailand. 15,000 military prisoners and 75,000 native laborers died building a railroad between Bangkok and Rangoo
Japan. Eight US airmen were used for medical dissection at Kyushu Imperial University with organs removed while the prisoners were still alive.
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