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What if the German communist revolution of 1918 succeded?


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#1 thecanadianfool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

1918, The first world war is near to an end, and the costly effects felt on the lines have been brought home in Germany. The British naval blockade has cut off supplies to the German mainland. General Ludendorff is beginning to lose his temper and most of all, The thoughts of revolution silently creep into the country. Naval mutiny's begin to take place and speakers rise up. Red flags are erected across the country and the internationale is sung. The revolution is sweeping the country like a tidal wave. When Hitler and the NSDAP begin to make a name for themselves, the revolution begins to draw back and when the Nazis take power in 1933 it is finally crushed. What if this didn't happen and the revolution prevailed unchecked across Germany? What would have happened to modern history? and what of the fate of the Jews.

Edited by thecanadianfool, 02 February 2012 - 09:49 PM.
Did not meet the requierments


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#2 thecanadianfool

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:40 AM

I updated the forum so it suits the priorities of the website.

Posted Image :poppy: :yellowribbon::mapleleaf: :ac_p51b: :flag_canada_ww2::flag_USSR::flag_freefrance: :flag_unionjack.wave :flag_uk: :flag_canada::vc:

Schultz: Col. Hogan if you ever escape...
Hogan: Yeah?
Schultz: Be a good fellow and take me with you.


#3 TiredOldSoldier

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:40 AM

I think the Jews would have fared better, they hardly could have fared worse, after all Karl Marx came from a well known Jewish family so it's unlikely a Marx inspired group would have fanatical antisemitic feelings. But USSR raw resources and German technology together make for an scary combination, so for everybody else it could possibly have been worse. IMO right wing Poland wouldn't have survived long cought between two communist superpowers that both had a grudge against it.

BTW this is a very open "what if" and likely to end up in the stump as it really explores a possible clash between political ideologies not a military scenario.

Edited by TiredOldSoldier, 03 February 2012 - 06:15 PM.

Truth is the first victim of conflict

#4 belasar

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:18 AM

I would suspect that some sort of civil war would breakout within Germany. Historicly the Weimar Government used the FreiKorps to suppress anarchist and communist in the early years anyway so likely they plus the 100,000 man army would be used far more liberaly to attempt to keep order. Considering that the Allies US, Britain, Japan and I think France sent troops to Russia just after the war to influence the Russian Revolution it is likely they would also/either go into Germany to acomplish the same thing. Poland might also intervene (and scarfe up a little extra land in the process).

Considering how much the consevative west hated/feared communism it is likely the would not allow it to take root in Germany, but that would invole a civil war that would drawf the one of Spain some 10 to 15 years later. Probably prevents WWII (in Europe) as we know it, but the economic cost of all this would likely leave Europe as a whole in a situation not much better than 1945.
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#5 R. Evans

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:50 AM

I would bet that the Entente forces would also intervene if Germany threatened to go Communist. After all they did try to intervene in Russia and Germany is alot closer and easier to put troops into. A nasty civil war involving French, British, and even American troops would be the result.
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#6 tomflorida

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:10 AM

Well, I believe that a war between Poland and Germany would have accured sooner then 1939. Even though Poland was about to go war against Russia, without any, or at least much, help from the Entente, they still had a bigger army then Germany. Also Russia was hardly a superpower at this time. Once Poland crossed the Russian boundries , war was on. Now if Germany attacked Poland from the West, I think the Entente nation would have intereveened immediately, and communist Germany would not have lasted a week.

#7 Carronade

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:23 PM

I think we have to consider two meanings or levels of success, as with the Bolshevik revolution. If the German communists succeeded initially in setting up a government, it probably would lead to civil war and foreign intervention. Then the question becomes whether, like the Bosheviks, they could eventually prevail.

Conservative, monarchist, etc. elements in Germany would appear to be stronger and better organized than the Whites in Russia - they could hardly not be - and Allied intervention is far easier, especially if this all starts happening before they begin to demobilize. And of course Germany is a much smaller area for either internal or interventionist forces to assert control. Overall I'd say the communist propects are notably worse.

We should keep in mind that the Russian revolution would be going on at the same time; it could turn into a continental struggle. If events happened quickly, there might not be a Versailles peace conference or opportunities to set up an independent Poland or organize the fragments of the Austo-Hungarian empire. The smaller nations and peoples of eastern Europe would try to protect their own interests while the communist-anti-communist struggle swirled around them. Could be quite a mess!

#8 TiredOldSoldier

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:11 PM

Quite a mess is a good description.
Communist countries are very likely to join forces and interventionists in a war weary Europe are not going to be very popular and may well trigger "red" revolution in France and Italy as well, what's worse if Germany goes "red" Stalin's faction is likely to loose to Trotzki's "internationalists" and they are not going to stand still for 20 years like Stalin did. Versailles as we know it is just not going to be, even if it gets signed before the revolution, a "red" Germany will never accept abtreaty without the soviets also sitting round the table and if they do Pilsudky's Poland. Horty's Hungaria and the other Eastern Versailles crerations are stillborn. But the situation is very fluid, there were "red" armed groups in a lot of countries in 1918-19 but they mostly failed to gain control amd with the exception of Russia they were eventually beaten, if they prevail in Germany we could well have a domino effect.
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#9 thecanadianfool

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:10 PM

Quite a mess is a good description.
Communist countries are very likely to join forces and interventionists in a war weary Europe are not going to be very popular and may well trigger "red" revolution in France and Italy as well, what's worse if Germany goes "red" Stalin's faction is likely to loose to Trotzki's "internationalists" and they are not going to stand still for 20 years like Stalin did. Versailles as we know it is just not going to be, even if it gets signed before the revolution, a "red" Germany will never accept abtreaty without the soviets also sitting round the table and if they do Pilsudky's Poland. Horty's Hungaria and the other Eastern Versailles crerations are stillborn. But the situation is very fluid, there were "red" armed groups in a lot of countries in 1918-19 but they mostly failed to gain control amd with the exception of Russia they were eventually beaten, if they prevail in Germany we could well have a domino effect.



So Marx's concept of world revolution would have succeded in taking place?

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Schultz: Col. Hogan if you ever escape...
Hogan: Yeah?
Schultz: Be a good fellow and take me with you.


#10 steverodgers801

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:49 AM

Stalin recounted a story from a visit to Germany, the German communists that greeted Stalin's party wouldnt leave the train platform because there was no one to take their ticket. Germany didnt have a communist leader the caliber of Lenin to lead the party.




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