The hitler youth?

Actually, looking at the idea again, I have decided to not make a game on this. I would however like any info you have! The Nazi power was in all ways wrong and I believe that creating a game from this would almost glorify it, even though it is not my intention.

 

I would say... before we head down technical discussion lane.

Print these pictures of these lads out first.
Put 'em on the wall by your pooter.
Keep 'em in mind.
'Absorb' 'em.

Perhaps just so as not to forget or drift away from what the Reich managed to do to kids.

They're interesting pics.
Promise you. The more familiar you get with 'em, the more they make you think.







(Haven't triple checked these lads were 12th/HJ - memory says they were. And really don't want to preach, just remind to... think. )

 

Some more...


Calvin L. Graham, Seaman First Class, Age 12


James Clark, Paratrooper, Private, Age 13


Jacklyn H. Lucas, joined the Marines at age 14, deserted his Replacement Battalion at age 16 to "sneak" into a combat unit, won the Congressional Medal of Honor at age 17 on Iwo Jima when he jumped on two Japanese grenades to save his fellow soldiers.

Oh wait. I'm sorry, these were all young American lads, did the Reich corrupt them too???

As a preacher, you might need to go back to Seminary school.

 

Rather strange to draw a direct parallel between lads who grew up in the US, maybe lied about their age, and served honourably as such, and those who had obligatory/forced service in Deutsche or Hitler Jugend, eventually serving in the 12th SS HitlerJugend. A Unit who's service is stained with casual prisoner execution & war crime.

Or do those HJ lads in the pictures not make one stop and wonder at the circumstances that led to the battered chap standing with the Canuck, and the, I always think, rather cocky lad with the '42. Dirty little kids in Nazi uniforms.
No consideration of the entire lifetime of indoctrination and what would now be termed 'abuse' is worthwhile?

Your strange comment appears a completely ad absurdum and rather assumptive extension of my own passing observation that some rather odd things happened in the Reich. Commonly, to hundreds/thousands.


A game is suggested.
A game based on the HJ needs to consider where the HJ sometimes led, doesn't it.

 

[qoute]
A game is suggested.
A game based on the HJ needs to consider where the HJ sometimes led, doesn't it.[/quote]

If you read my edited post, I am no longer going to create a game based on this

 

Tak, Any of these American lads led by Panzer Meyer figures were they? Like the 12th were.
Or anyone even faintly similar?



Ooh, look, he's smiling.
That makes him and everything he did and was a part of exactly the equivalent of an allied officer who might have smiled sometimes does it....

The Reich was different.
Direct equivalencies between it and other regimes rarely automatically stand.

 

If you read my edited post, I am no longer going to create a game based on this

[/QUOTE]Cool, Morgan - my screen was still showing the original post.

Your call, as I think something could be constructed along the lines of some of the more thoughtful RPGs. I do suspect a straight FPS could easily become slightly poor taste!

 

Hello, is there any way to delete this post? Thanks

 

Why, mate? Would it help if I removed that quote of the original post? Entirely legit and interesting topic.


'Flakhelfer' & 'Luftwaffehelfer' worth a google when looking at kids in the Reich. Always been fascinated by kids in the big city flak towers.

 

Please do I will keep it, I just don't want some ass to start an internet war haha. Thanks for the info!

 

Done, mate.
This ain't a webwar. We can do them much more convincingly.

Have you read Henry Mettelman's book 'Through Hell For Hitler'? If not it might be worth a starting shufti.
Terrible title for a fine book, but he starts quite nicely from his HJ years, and the somewhat peculiar perspective they gave him on his first steps to adulthood.
Lots of rather heavy/dry analysis of the HJ out there, but that one is sort of... 'human'.

 

Watch the movie Downfall for an interesting take on Hitler Youth being used as cannon fodder in the fall of Berlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdPq5ZufQpw

 

Seriously though...

Greetings Morgan,

I presume you are talking about the 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend.

You can find an adequate synopsis of their formations and history here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_SS_Panzer_Division_Hitlerjugend

For a more detailed history Hurbert Meyer's(he was with the 12th SS from formation to surrender, and was placed in temporary command from September - October, 1944) book "12th SS: The History of the Hitler Youth Panzer Division is a must have. Luckily, Stackpole Books has reprinted the English translation in a two-volume set that can be had for fairly cheap
Volume I: http://www.amazon.com/History-Division-Stackpole-Military-Paperback/dp/B00DU7BDGU
Volume II: http://www.amazon.com/History-Division-Stackpole-Military-Paperback/dp/B00DU7BDGU
The hardback copy by JJF Publishing is going for considerably more...


Now, as to game design, the "training" part is just to introduce the player to the game - how to move, shoot, and possibly issue orders to fellow soldiers. Usually, it involves crawling(usually under barbed wire with the prerequisite machine guns firing overhead), walking, running and climbing through an obstacle course. Then you move on to the firing range where you practice shooting with each of the weapons you will be using - pistol, SMG, rifle, machine gun, rocket launcher, grenades, etc

As to gameplay, you have a choice of how the mission is to be completed, Linear or Non-Linear(AFAIK, the most popular being non-linear). With linear gameplay, you have to complete your tasks in a specific order; Task #1, Task #2, Task #3, and finally Task #4 - Done. In non-linear gameplay, you complete the missions in any combination you want; Task #4, Task #1, Task #3, Task #2 - Done. Linear gameplay is mostly old hat, done before PCs and graphics cards had become more powerful - being better able to handle a large playing zone without a complete loss in frame rate.


Probably my all-time favorite 1st person shooter was "Medal of Honor: Airborne" - Good graphics(at the time), non-linear gameplay, and a good assortment of American and German weaponry(that would upgrade automatically once you achieved a certain number of kills using the weapon, with a maximum of 3 upgrades per weapon).

The weapons assortment, IIRC, was

Grenades (All Types - American pineapple, German potato masher, Gammon AT)
Satchel (Increased Capacity)
Satchel (Increased Capacity)
Satchel (Increased Capacity)

AMERICAN
M1911 Colt .45
Leather Holster (Quicker Swap Time)
Match Grade Trigger (Improved Rate of fire)
Magnum Rounds (Increased Damage)

Thompson
Front Pistol Grip (accuracy improved)
Compensator (recoil decreased)
50 Round Ammo Drum (Magazine Capacity Increased)

M12 Shotgun
Modified Choke (Improved Accuracy)
Buck Shot (Increased Damage)
Bayonet Attachment (single hit melee kills)

M1 Garand
Match Grade Barrel (Improved Accuracy)
Adjustable Sights (Increased Accuracy)
M7A1 Grenade Launcher (Grenade Launcher)

BAR
Compensator (Improved Recoil)
A2 Adjustable Sights (Improved Accuracy)
Dual Mags. (Improved Reload Time)

M1903 Springfield
Polished Match Grade Bolt (Improved Rate of Fire)
5 Round Stripper Clip (Improved Reload Time)
M1 Grenade Launcher (Grenade Launcher)

M18 Recoilless Rifle
Enhanced Scope (Improved Accuracy)
Satchel (Ammo Increase)
Mussette Bag (Ammo Increase)

GERMAN
C96 Mauser
Shoulder Stock (Recoil Decrease)
20 Round Mag. (Ammo Capacity Increased)
Automatic Conversion Kit (gun can be fired at full auto)

MP-40
Dual Magazines (Reload Faster)
64 Round Mag. (Ammo Increase)
Knife Attachment (Single Hit Melee Kills)

Kar 98K
Polished Match Grade Bolt (Improved Rate of Fire)
5 Round Stripper Clip (Increased Reload Time)
Schiessbecher Grenade Launcher (Grenade Launcher)

G43
20 Round Mag. (Increased Ammo)
Tactical Scope (Increased Accuracy)
Schiessbecher Grenade Launcher (Grenade Launcher)

StG-44
Muzzle Break (Improved Recoil)
Dual Magazines (Improved Reload Time)
Tactical Scope (Improved Accuracy)

Panzershreck
Improved Sights (Accuracy Increase)
Shell Bag (Ammo Increased)
Shell Bag (Ammo Increased)

The carried weapons set-up was Primary, Secondary, Pistol, Grenade. With Primary being your main weapon(rifle, shotgun, or SMG) with your secondary being(SMG, rocket launcher, sniper rifle). On all weapons, except the pistol, your ammunition was limited to what you carried, but that was not much of a problem, because you had two supply areas that would provide ammunition, health, and grenades, but could only be used once. However, American and German soldiers that were killed would sometimes drop weapons that you could pick up and use, or if you were carrying the same weapon dropped would provide you with extra ammunition.

Overall it was a very fun game to play, since it let you use the weapons of both sides and provided you with upgrades that made the weapons better to use

 

Thanks everyone for your help! I will be sure to look into these references

 

Yes, he is Kurt Meyer, commanding officer of the 12th SS Panzer Division during the invasion of Normandy.

Given the charges he was convicted of, several, if not many, Allied generals could be tried and convicted of the same charges, except, of course, they were on the winning side.

However, since this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, if you wish to discuss this further, please start a new thread.

 

If you are still interested in making a World War II FPS - based on whatever faction you like - You should also look into "Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway" developed by Gearbox Software, and published by Ubisoft.

The gameplay was, at the time, unique, and I would say realistic.

Gameplay was centered around finding cover, and making use of "allied" fire teams(squad tactics) to suppress the enemy. From what I remember, first, you didn't have "health points", so to speak, but when you exposed yourself to fire , your screen began to turn red - as you exposed yourself to incoming fire - when it was completely red, you were shot and died. So, no more mowing down enemy soldiers while totally exposed to incoming fire. Second, you also had fire teams that you could control - such as rifle, assault, and bazooka - and these went hand in hand with the "squad tactics" focus of the game. You could establish a "base of fire" with one or two of your rifle teams to "suppress" the enemy group, while you and a third group snuck around the enemy and hit them from the side. The uptick to allied groups to suppress the enemy was that they became more inaccurate at returning fire - took longer for your screen to turn red, and when the enemy group was "completely suppressed", they hardly returned fire at all, thus making them a prime target for a frontal assault, and an even better target to be taken from the side. The downside was that opposing enemy groups usually had interlocking fields of fire, so you had to find and take out the one group at either end of the line first.

It was a very cool concept, but because of the way the game was designed, it was, IMHO, hampered by the use of linear style missions - the game had a rather involved storyline that made use of a lot of cinematics - so you were stuck on the game's "rails" and were not allowed to roam free.

 

I second that choice. Very intense scenes of HJ.

 

Takao, it is refeshing to see someone give this game it's due respect. It is one of those WWII FPS that I always come back to and appreciate every time I plug it in. It is very historically accurate and contains historical anecdotes throughout. The gameplay is excellent and has really stood the test of time.

 

I think it is important to differentiate between 12th SS soldiers and HJ as shown in the Downfall video. 12th SS was created from recruits of the class of 1926 and by June 44 half of them would have been 18.This means that age wise they were little different from many Allied soldiers they faced. The difference was the proprtion aged 17-18 was high but all of these boys would have been going into the Army somewhere in 1943/44 anyway. The real crime was (as the video shows) the use of boys in the HJ who were sometimes 12 and 13 in combat, usually poorly equipped or given just Panzerfausts and minimal training even in using that.

 

I had been hoping that Gearbox would come out with the final game in the series, alluded to at the end of "Hell's Highway" and based on the Battle of the Bulge, but, sadly, it appears that the series has been abandoned. There was talk about a new Gearbox series based on the "Filthy 13", but that series would have done away with the gameplay of Brothers in Arms, and was to have been more akin to the current batch of super-soldier FPSs. AFAIK, there was a lot of outcry from the BoA fanbase, and the new series was basically stillborn.

From the looks of it, adapting the game to mobile apps - smart phones & tablets - essentially killed it.