Russian POWs

How was it that the Russians lost so many millions of POWs in the opening months of the war, but were still able to train and mobilize enough men in enough time to ultimately stop the Germans? (Yes the weather was a big factor but the Red Army fought back and pushed back from Moscow and after the initial German Spring Offensive of 1942).

 

One, there was chaos at the onset of the invasion which resulted in the loss of so many. Second, the loss, while great, was not all that great percentage wise to the standing army. For example, the Soviets lost 46 divisions but had 303 divisions to start with. Finally, while the Soviets were raising/training a replacement army, they were "throwing" away quick replacements. The Soviets had a huge supply of manpower they thought they could do this while wearing down the Germans. Also consider that the loss dropped after the Soviets discovered the German weaknesses and learned from them. The USSR was immense.

 

Russian Population in 1939: 109,300,000. Total Soviet Union Population in 1939: 168,524,000

German stats: http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html

 

Many millions is relative :

Number of Soviet POW (following the German inflated figures) in 1941

1 july : 112000

1 august:813000

1 september:1.5 million

1 october:2.8 million

1 november:3.5 million

1 december:3.87 million

1 january :3.9 million

But,at the end of 1941,Berlin had come to realize that these figures were totally unreliable, and subtracted arbitrarily some 500000.

 

I think the Red Army also had quite alot of women soldiers.

"There were 800,000 women who served in the Soviet Armed Forces during the war."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_women_in_World_War_II

Well not millions but anyway...

 

Not mentioned so far was the fact that the Soviets had a strategic reserve: the Siberian army, which was well trained and equipped. Once Stalin was convinced that Japan was not going to go to war with them, the Soviets brought that army west and it was instrumental in driving the Germans back from Moscow in the Winter of '41.

 

This is not correct : the Siberian Army was only a drop in the ocean,and,it had no role in the Russian winter offensive .

 

The Siberian Army was 40 divisions, and they were also equipped with T34s that early in the war. There was only around 1200 T34s in the early stages of Barbarossa and the Siberian Army had a good chunk.

 

NO:

In june 1941,11 divisions were going west (they were already in transit before 22 june),9 ID and 2 mobile divisionsof which 6 from the Siberian MD:when Typhoon started,these divisions had already been lost .

in july ,3 divisions went west ,of which 1 mobile divisions .

Between august and december,14 divisions went west,of which 3 (=THREE )Siberian divisions ..Of these 14, 8 were going to the Western Front,for the defense of Moscow . Of these 8 ,there were 2 Siberian ones .,both Rifle divisions without tanks : the 32 and 93 rifle divisions .

The Far Eastern Front had on 22 june 4 armies with 23 divisions of which 5 mobile ones .

 

Russian divisions were also much smaller than Western (including Germany) divisions. Russian divisions were 10,000 and sometimes ran understrength.

 

The series World War II in Color the narrator said the mechanized divisions within the Siberian Army were equipped with T-34s, I didn't mean to say that all 40 divisions had tanks.

 

Probably,the narrator didn't know the difference between a tank,a assault gun and a truck .Besides, there was no such thing as a Siberian Army .

 

The Siberian front army of the Red Army, I'm not quoting him directly, but he did say they were equipped with T-34s for the defense of Moscow.

 

Are we getting hung up by nomenclature here? I have always heard/read that the core of the troops that counter-attacked in front of Moscow in December of '41 were troops from the east that were well-trained and experienced. Are you saying that isn't true LJAd? If so, what formations did they use?

 

I refer again to: the "Siberian" divisions and the Battle for Moscow in 1941-1942.

Between 23 june and 31 december,28 divisions of the peace army were transferred west. They were coming from the MD of the Urals,Siberia, Central Asia, Transbaikal and from the Far Eastern Front ..

At the same time were mobilised and deployed 306 new divisions, and 149 brigades .


Where were these divisions mobilised ,what was their origin ? It was not the sparsely populated territories east of the Urals (some 10 %) of the Soviet population,but European Russia where was living 80 % of the Soviet population .
On the average, the SU was sending in 1941 every month ONE MILLION MEN to the front:the number of those from the MD of Siberia was a drop in the ocean .

These millions of reservists, without experience and not well-trained succeeded to stop the German onslaught but failed to destroy the Ostheer during the winter .

 

And, on the tanks :
2 (of course slightly different) figures :

a)number of available tanks on the front in december 1941: 1927 : 1927 only ! of which 322 T 34,of which 179 before Moscow :before the war ,ONE Soviet tank division had some 400 tanks

b)production of the T 34 in the second half of 1941:between 1886 and 2200

number of available T 34 on 22 june : 900,production : 2200,lost 2300,remaining (for the front,including in transit,AND for the tank schools) : 800..

Already before december,due to the big losses (some 20000 tanks) the tank divisions and mechanised corps had been disbanded and replaced by tank brigades .

 

The "legend" of the Asiatic horde of Siberians, in full winter kit skiing into battle behind hordes of T34's suited the German propaganda machine. The German Army up until this point had been unbeatable and the truth was far less palatable. A combination of Soviet bloody resistance, attrition, lack of supplies, weather and sheer exhaustion had ground the Wehrmacht to a halt at the gates of Moscow. The idea that a racially inferior foe but better equipped and outnumbering them suited them much better. Right through 1942 there are less T34's than other types such as the T60 etc but just as every Allied soldier saw Tigers and 88's everywhere every German soldier saw T34's and Siberians. Better to report to your commander that you have beaten by Siberians and T34's than to admit you lost to conscripts, militia and a bunch of T26's.