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aircraft engine questions

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by TA152, Jan 26, 2003.

  1. TA152

    TA152 Ace

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    In liquid cooled aircraft engines they give the horsepower and then state it is so much more additional horsepower with water-methanol injection. What does water do for the engine, I thought gas and water was not good. Also why did they not use this on radial engines ?
    One other related question is they said on some Me-109s that nitrous oxide was carried to boost horsepower. Where did they put the tank for the nitrous oxide. The example I am looking at is the Me-109E-7/Z

    I read they did the same thing on jet engines, such as the KC-135 needed water injection on take off but I never knew what the water did for the engine.
     
  2. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Can't answer all your questions, Ta152 but I can add a bit about 'water-injection'.

    Water has long been known to give extra power and torque for internal-combustion engines ; humid air also. It has the effect of retarding the ignition minutely, allowing the piston to 'squeeze' the mixture just a little more before exploding - thus effectively increasing the compression ratio a little.

    Take a high-performance car out on the highway in wet conditions - it will feel quicker !

    A fine spray of water can also be used to prevent 'pinking' ( detonation ) if the engine is very highly-tuned and 'marginal' on compression ratio. It has the effect of bringing cylinder head temperatures down minutely.

    Some years ago when turbocharged engines were introduced into Formula 1 motorsport, Ferrari could not stop their engines from exploding due to high operating temperatures. So until the engine management could be 'sorted', they devised a water 'spray' that would coat each tiny microscopic droplet of fuel with a layer of water before entering the combustion chamber. Result - more reliability, better combustion, more power....

    Now to tell the truth, I'm not really sure how radial engines work at all . . . . :confused:
     
  3. No.9

    No.9 Ace

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    TA152 – A problem with using straight water in aircraft is stopping the water freezing. Hence say a water/methanol mix. Another factor of mixing water vapour with fuel is the combined gas is denser, ergo heavier. This gas gives improved cylinder filling, ergo increased ‘suck’ efficiency of the ‘suck – squeeze – bang - blow’ cycle. A car/motorcycle should run a little ‘livelier’ on a rainy day due to the water vapour suspended in the air your engine is drawing in.
    Why do you say this was not used on radial engines?

    Re nitrous-oxide, it’s use is for ‘short burns’ to produce boosts like the after-burner on a jet engine. Burn duration is typically seconds as the associated increase in power seriously stresses an engine. The fuel needs to be accurately pumped as if under delivers the ‘lean burn’ send temperatures soaring and things melt! In the absence of someone being able to advise you specifically, I would expect this would be a relatively small internal tank with some armour protection if possible.

    Engine design
    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4515/engine.html

    Use of water
    http://www.geocities.com/blownrenault/winj1a.html

    Focke Wulf fw190 engine
    http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Histpres/Corrosion_Report/bmw801.html

    Bf109E
    http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Histpres/Corrosion_Report/bmw801.html

    Replica project
    http://www.web-birds.com/miller/index.html

    No.9
     
  4. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    I'll try not too complicate the posts of Martin or # 9 but can tell you a little story.....
    this will be included in much depth in our book/
    The 10./JG 300 staffel of 18 Bf 109G-6/AS was given the task to intercept LSNF Mosquito's inbound to Berlin. Each 109 was equipped with MW 50 which would give each a/c roughly 10 minutes of intial and supreme boosting power at over 32,500 feet. The idea was to fly above the Mossies and then dive down on them if they were not already out of reach. The fastest a/c in the oversized staffel was Weisse 8 and all blue 109 from spinner to tail. Every rivet/bolt was epoxied and a gloss finish using spray on polish was added before each mission and buffed out. The big secret besides the MW 50 booster was the grade of oil used. A special thining agent was added to smooth out the roughness of the engines performance at the 30,000 foot altitude and thus in the case of this particular 109 the a/c could exceed 460 mph , and this back in September 1944!

    E
     

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